Knowledgism - Alan C Walter - Info needed

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Why be earth centric? It's a big universe with probably lots of bodies with a brain scattered around. You can't have science fiction stories without them.

I better get off this thread - I'm getting "buttered all over the universe", a phrase I heard in scn.
yep, good point. like we talked about on a thread about multi-armed gods recently, on the 'whole track' there should have been all sorts of bodily forms quite different from bipedal anthropomorphic ones.

another of the known problems with supposed past life recollections, is people rarely imagine being a different gender or ethnicity than they are in this life. any spiritual approach in the 21st century that gives consideration to such phenomenon but doesn't try to do some of the obvious separation of the wheat from the chaff in matters like that, is unscientific and non-rigorous, and just repeating known illusory errors from the past.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
yep, good point. like we talked about on a thread about multi-armed gods recently, on the 'whole track' there should have been all sorts of bodily forms quite different from bipedal anthropomorphic ones.

another of the known problems with supposed past life recollections, is people rarely imagine being a different gender or ethnicity than they are in this life. any spiritual approach in the 21st century that gives consideration to such phenomenon but doesn't try to do some of the obvious separation of the wheat from the chaff in matters like that, is unscientific and non-rigorous, and just repeating known illusory errors from the past.
On the other hand the simple counter to all the objections might be that the mind/brain instantly translates a past life memory to what is currently understandable. Our eyes project an upside down image to our brain yet we perceive and operate right side up. A native in a jungle would have concepts of god, gods, incorporeal beings and an afterlife quite different than a person in modern society.

Having multiple arms would aid in multi tasking. My two chamber brain is doing okay. Maybe next time around I'll have a four or eight chamber brain and be able to think faster!

P.S. I just took a look at the original post and the thread was started by "Rockycharles" seeking information about Knowedgism because a family member is experiencing mental health issues possibly caused by their participation. Hopefully they got some useful information. As might be expected the conversation became more general.
 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
P.S. I just took a look at the original post and the thread was started by Rockycharles seeking information about Knowedgism because a relative is experiencing mental health issues possibly or probably caused by their participation. Hopefully they got some useful information. As might be expected the conversation became more general.
yeah, i was sort of trying to steer it back that way at the end there.

so, does Knowledgism believe in past lives? i can't readily find anything about that, but it seems like the sort of thing they might keep as 'upper level' or whatever. it would certainly be a major departure from scientology for them to have abandoned that, and Walter would either have had to be one of the very few heavily involved who never who never experienced that particular false memory phenomenon resulting from the hypnotic/suggestive auditing process, or else someone who later realized that it was illusory and invalid.

i guess that also leads to the question, does Knowledgism put people in a 'reverie' state like that of auditing?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
so, does Knowledgism believe in past lives? i can't readily find anything about that, but it seems like the sort of thing they might keep as 'upper level' or whatever.
I know nothing about Knowledgism, but here's a link on the WayBackMachine
to some of Alan C. Walter eBooks, which are essentially compilations of his earlier
writings/posts on ESMB and an Internet news group (alt.clearing.technology):
  • ACW Lightlink Archives (PDF)
  • The ESMB Posts (PDF)
  • Dart Smohen: The Real Story (Additional Commentary by Alan C. Walter) (PDF)
I just downloaded them as a courtesy and virus checked them at VirusTotal,
which I always do before posting a link like this on the message board. You can
virus check them for yourself, if you'd like. It's too easy.
:hattip:


Footnote: I glanced over the ACW Linklight Archives and many of the postings seem to be musings
and early kernels of his later practice of Knowledgism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Something I'm not interested in
knowing about. A quick glance is all I could take. But I checked it out. Looks like a "rethink" and
rebranding of scientology-like concepts. Stuff like this:

"Since writing the book “Gods in Disguise” there have been 18 new areas of non-permeation​
handlings discovered. These discoveries are very different from any other technical procedures​
being used on planet earth at this time.*
"These discoveries were uncovered when the major mechanism of how ordinary people handled their​
areas of non-permeation came to view. Not only ordinary people but most Gurus and leaders in the​
fields of human potential and philosophy."​

*This is a key trigger phrase that tells you immediately this is an offshoot of scientology. A discovery made
by @HelluvaHoax! in addition to his discovery of the Hubbard Law Of Commotion. :coolwink:
 
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Is-Was

Member
@Is-Was

I am entirely happy to warn anyone asking for info that scientology and Kn (knowledgism) will eventually have them hunting for hubbards BT's (ie body thetans) with an e-meter ... renamed as 'invisible friends' by Kn. For me, that is the most important factor, it is a form of mental and spiritual entrapment ... worse than any physical abuse.

People have gone insane while doing this and I stupidly wasted time and money myself while involved in the cofs, as most members here also did ... we actually do know how it works.

It is not a harmless practice and is not without a degree of danger but you are of course free to experience it yourself if you so desire either within the cofs or Kn because they are "basically one and the same" ... tek wise.
Thanks for your reply.

Regarding the equivalence of the two teks, I've read enough of their "source" documents to recognize many similarities. There are also differences, no doubt important to their respective practitioners, but I will leave it to any advocates of either tek to engage in the grueling task of differentiating between them. Thus I have no reason to quibble with your shorthand statement of their "basic" equivalence.

Regarding the abusive practice you experienced in Scientology and described in your post, my greatest respect to you and others who have managed to go that far into the quagmire and still disentangle yourselves from it and Scientology.

I would hesitate to attribute that practice to Knowledgism without having someone's statement of their personal experience of it in Knowledgism, or some supporting dox or similar evidence.

Alan Walter wrote in considerable detail regarding his beliefs about "spiritual teammates," in a book which I have looked at. FWIW I would characterize those beliefs as more "New-Age" than Scientological.

In that book, Alan Walter condemned the practice you described in the above-quoted post. For that reason and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I tend to doubt that any Knowledgist has been asked to engage in that practice or anything much like it.

I won't advertise the book by naming it here, but as a point of comparison with Scientology's upper level secrecy, I want to mention that apparently anyone, Knowledgist or otherwise, can buy the book from the Knowledgism web site for less than $30 U.S.D.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Thanks for your reply.

Regarding the equivalence of the two teks, I've read enough of their "source" documents to recognize many similarities. There are also differences, no doubt important to their respective practitioners, but I will leave it to any advocates of either tek to engage in the grueling task of differentiating between them. Thus I have no reason to quibble with your shorthand statement of their "basic" equivalence.

Regarding the abusive practice you experienced in Scientology and described in your post, my greatest respect to you and others who have managed to go that far into the quagmire and still disentangle yourselves from it and Scientology.

I would hesitate to attribute that practice to Knowledgism without having someone's statement of their personal experience of it in Knowledgism, or some supporting dox or similar evidence.

Alan Walter wrote in considerable detail regarding his beliefs about "spiritual teammates," in a book which I have looked at. FWIW I would characterize those beliefs as more "New-Age" than Scientological.

In that book, Alan Walter condemned the practice you described in the above-quoted post. For that reason and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I tend to doubt that any Knowledgist has been asked to engage in that practice or anything much like it.

I won't advertise the book by naming it here, but as a point of comparison with Scientology's upper level secrecy, I want to mention that apparently anyone, Knowledgist or otherwise, can buy the book from the Knowledgism web site for less than $30 U.S.D.
Yes, I believe imaginary BT's are dealt with more respectfully in kn to how the cofs deals with them but they both use a hubbard e-meter when auditing them and they are similar enough for me to want nothing to do with either.

I recall the various "New-Age" stuff started to really permeate society in the 70's so I would include both the cofs and kn in that category, though hubbard was before his time and got in a decade or two earlier. Hopefully in the years since most people have learned that much of it is complete twaddle, having said that there are many people still looking for something to guide them through life and I feel a degree of responsibility to warn them when they ask for advice.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

--snipped--
"Since writing the book “Gods in Disguise” there have been 18 new areas of non-permeation​
handlings discovered. These discoveries are very different from any other technical procedures​
being used on planet earth at this time.*
*This is a key trigger phrase that tells you immediately this is an offshoot of scientology.

LOL!!!

When I saw that quote and realized that someone actually left Scientology and then continued seriously using the expression "on planet earth" I felt psychic pain. LOL.

However, moments later I suddenly felt elated to learn of the intensifier "at this time". That modifier makes all the difference! To illustrate, kindly compare the following two iterations of the same sentence:

#1: I'm hungry, wanna go grab a burger?

#2: I'm hungry, wanna go grab a burger
on planet earth at this time?

The former (#1) is cryptically indecipherable as well as rife with generalities (i.e. which planet does the being wish to eat on? And just as significantly, when is this burger cycle intended to take place--and is there any wholetrack time travel involved?). However the latter (#2) provides all of the specificities of time, place, form and event that leads to full as-isness and blown charge for the being on planet earth at this time.

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Yes, I believe imaginary BT's are dealt with more respectfully in kn to how the cofs deals with them but they both use a hubbard e-meter when auditing them and they are similar enough for me to want nothing to do with either. I recall the various "New-Age" stuff started to really permeate society in the 70's so I would include both the cofs and kn in that category, though hubbard was before his time and got in a decade or two earlier. Hopefully in the years since most people have learned that much of it is complete twaddle, having said that there are many people still looking for something to guide them through life and I feel a degree of responsibility to warn them when they ask for advice.
.
Whether traditional religion or "new age" religion, there seems to be a pervasive common denominator.

THE SELLING OF NON-EXISTENT SOLUTIONS TO
LIFE THREATENING BUT INVISIBLE PROBLEMS

Scientology's got an entire catalogue of invisible ruins that only they possess the cure for:

- a few examples -

ENGRAMS

MENTAL "CHARGE"

IMPLANTS

BODY THETANS

SP & PTS

EVIL PURPOSES

WHOLETRACK OVERTS

Scientology's main gimmick is a marketing trick where the word "SCIENCE" is plastered on book covers and all the way up and down both sides of the "Bridge To Total Freedom" (itself a non-existent solution to the invisible life-threatening problem known as "losing your eternity". This of course also applies to the multiple offshoots and derivatives of Scientology being sold under different banners (e.g. "Indie" Scientology, "Ron's Org" Scientology, "BT Busters", et al)

We now arrive in the FREE BONUS section of this post where you will receive a video for no extra charge that will show you something that seems (on its face) to have nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology; but, alas, what you are about to witness is exactly and precisely identical to Scientology in every meaningful way. Think I'm joking? LOL


Well, there you have it.
THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY!
(minus the cheesy naval uniforms and soup cans)


.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
.
Whether traditional religion or "new age" religion, there seems to be a pervasive common denominator.

THE SELLING OF NON-EXISTENT SOLUTIONS TO
LIFE THREATENING BUT INVISIBLE PROBLEMS

Scientology's got an entire catalogue of invisible ruins that only they possess the cure for:

- a few examples -

ENGRAMS

MENTAL "CHARGE"

IMPLANTS

BODY THETANS

IMPLANTS

SP & PTS

EVIL PURPOSES

WHOLETRACK OVERTS

Scientology's main gimmick is a marketing trick where the word "SCIENCE" is plastered on book covers and all the way up and down both sides of the "Bridge To Total Freedom" (itself a non-existent solution to the invisible life-threatening problem known as "losing your eternity". This of course also applies to the multiple offshoots and derivatives of Scientology being sold under different banners (e.g. "Indie" Scientology, "Ron's Org" Scientology, "BT Busters", et al)

We now arrive in the FREE BONUS section of this post where you will receive a video for no extra charge that will show you something that seems (on its face) to have nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology; but, alas, what you are about to witness is exactly and precisely identical to Scientology in every meaningful way. Think I'm joking? LOL


Well, there you have it.
THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY!
(minus the cheesy naval uniforms, BT-loaded volcanos and soup cans)


.
"BT Busters" - laughter!

Regarding the video, maybe mass hypnosis and the power of suggestion? At the beginning of the video there is a notation mentioning ". . . the working power of the Holy Spirit" which is a general description or another way of saying Universal Intelligence or Divine Presence and the people in attendance already have that belief.

At any rate maybe half of the human population believes in incorporeal sentient entities like angels, ghosts, spirit guides and so on. Numerous entities attached to the body would be an extreme example.

I was living in LA around 1979 and joined the Great Exodus of scientologists blowing scientology because of the resumption of the monthly price increases. Several blown scientologist get together groups sprung up and I joined one. There were about fifteen of us and we met weekly at someone's house and discussed scientology and other practices and listened to several channeling tapes.

On one of the tapes a group of OTs had recruited a channeler whose entity went by the name of Dr. Peebles and with specifics edited out they were grilling him about whether OTIII was real or not. He hedged and replied, "Well, that is one of several possibilities . . . " and went on to expound about other exciting activities available in the spiritual universe. He said that occasionally he and some other entities would gather and discuss how best to impart their knowledge to we humans. What a trip!
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.
Whether traditional religion or "new age" religion, there seems to be a pervasive common denominator.

THE SELLING OF NON-EXISTENT SOLUTIONS TO
LIFE THREATENING BUT INVISIBLE PROBLEMS

Scientology's got an entire catalogue of invisible ruins that only they possess the cure for:

- a few examples -

ENGRAMS

MENTAL "CHARGE"

IMPLANTS

BODY THETANS

SP & PTS

EVIL PURPOSES

WHOLETRACK OVERTS

Scientology's main gimmick is a marketing trick where the word "SCIENCE" is plastered on book covers and all the way up and down both sides of the "Bridge To Total Freedom" (itself a non-existent solution to the invisible life-threatening problem known as "losing your eternity". This of course also applies to the multiple offshoots and derivatives of Scientology being sold under different banners (e.g. "Indie" Scientology, "Ron's Org" Scientology, "BT Busters", et al)

We now arrive in the FREE BONUS section of this post where you will receive a video for no extra charge that will show you something that seems (on its face) to have nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology; but, alas, what you are about to witness is exactly and precisely identical to Scientology in every meaningful way. Think I'm joking? LOL


Well, there you have it.
THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY!
(minus the cheesy naval uniforms and soup cans)


.

EDIT: If you did not have the curiosity (or the courage, lol) to watch that creepy-culty-cringey BENNY HINN video above---or if you saw it and didn't see why I was madly claiming that it was virtually identical to Scientology, here's why.

The video depicts the sheer and overwhelming
power of the invisible to inspire faith and/or fear
sufficient to gain obedience of the credulous.



.


 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
EDIT: If you did not have the curiosity (or the courage, lol) to watch that creepy-culty-cringey BENNY HINN video above---or if you saw it and didn't see why I was madly claiming that it was virtually identical to Scientology, here's why.

The video depicts the sheer and overwhelming
power of the invisible to inspire faith and/or fear
sufficient to gain obedience of the credulous.



.


Really? I thought it was his magic coat? Damn...
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
.
Whether traditional religion or "new age" religion, there seems to be a pervasive common denominator.

THE SELLING OF NON-EXISTENT SOLUTIONS TO
LIFE THREATENING BUT INVISIBLE PROBLEMS

Scientology's got an entire catalogue of invisible ruins that only they possess the cure for:

- a few examples -

ENGRAMS

MENTAL "CHARGE"

IMPLANTS

BODY THETANS

SP & PTS

EVIL PURPOSES

WHOLETRACK OVERTS

Scientology's main gimmick is a marketing trick where the word "SCIENCE" is plastered on book covers and all the way up and down both sides of the "Bridge To Total Freedom" (itself a non-existent solution to the invisible life-threatening problem known as "losing your eternity". This of course also applies to the multiple offshoots and derivatives of Scientology being sold under different banners (e.g. "Indie" Scientology, "Ron's Org" Scientology, "BT Busters", et al)

We now arrive in the FREE BONUS section of this post where you will receive a video for no extra charge that will show you something that seems (on its face) to have nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology; but, alas, what you are about to witness is exactly and precisely identical to Scientology in every meaningful way. Think I'm joking? LOL


Well, there you have it.
THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY!
(minus the cheesy naval uniforms and soup cans)


.
That video reminded me of events back in the early 80s.,

I lived kitty corner across the street from Benny's Orlando Christian Center, (I think it was Calgary Assembly before OCC). My best friend wanted me to go with her to see him one evening.. I said, nope, I'd be in a condition of doubt if any of my friends from the Org around the corner saw me leaving their parking lot. Lol

Anyway, Janeen got up on stage for her PMS cramps, Benny shoved her backwards and the catchers missed her. She was a big woman, and this put her shoulder out. She decided to sue the place. But her feelings were mostly hurt because she felt the catchers didn't 'want to catch her. I think they offered her to come back for a few healing/ prayer sessions, but she said, "Hrrrrrmmmph". She wanted money for her pain. I think that place is the Gateway Church now, still on Formosa Ave in College Park, Fla.


Oy oy, so much falling over.

 

Zertel

Well-known member
That video reminded me of events back in the early 80s.,

I lived kitty corner across the street from Benny's Orlando Christian Center, (I think it was Calgary Assembly before OCC). My best friend wanted me to go with her to see him one evening.. I said, nope, I'd be in a condition of doubt if any of my friends from the Org around the corner saw me leaving their parking lot. Lol

Anyway, Janeen got up on stage for her PMS cramps, Benny shoved her backwards and the catchers missed her. She was a big woman, and this put her shoulder out. She decided to sue the place. But her feelings were mostly hurt because she felt the catchers didn't 'want to catch her. I think they offered her to come back for a few healing/ prayer sessions, but she said, "Hrrrrrmmmph". She wanted money for her pain. I think that place is the Gateway Church now, still on Formosa Ave in College Park, Fla.


Oy oy, so much falling over.

Funny story and thanks for the reference! Benny has been at it for 40 years and has a huge following. Wow
I did a follow up from the reference and found a brief biography of Benny from his website reprinted at the bottom of this article.


I looked up the acronym NAR and found this in Wikipedia:

excerpt

The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a movement which seeks to establish a fifth branch within Christendom distinct from Catholicism, Protestantism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Eastern Orthodoxy. The movement largely consists of churches nominally or formerly associated with Pentecostal denominations and Charismatic movements but have diverged from traditional Pentecostal and Charismatic theology in that it advocates for the restoration of the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of prophet and apostle.[1]

Contents
Beliefs[edit]
The New Apostolic Reformation is a title originally used by C. Peter Wagner to describe a movement within Pentecostal and charismatic churches. The title New Apostolic Reformation is descriptive of a theological movement and is not an organization and therefore does not have formal membership. Among those in the movement that inspired the title NAR, there is a wide range of variance on specific beliefs. Those within the movement hold to their denominational interpretations of the ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit within each believer. Unlike some parts of Protestant Christianity, these include the direct revelation of Christ to each believer, prophecy, and the performance of miracles such as healing. This movement has also been given the descriptive title "Third Wave of the Holy Spirit".[2]
.................................................................................................

Maybe LRH 2.0 will convert and join the Reformation when he gets out of jail. . . . . . . . . (joke)
 
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Karen#1

Well-known member
.




LOL!!!

When I saw that quote and realized that someone actually left Scientology and then continued seriously using the expression "on planet earth" I felt psychic pain. LOL.

However, moments later I suddenly felt elated to learn of the intensifier "at this time". That modifier makes all the difference! To illustrate, kindly compare the following two iterations of the same sentence:

#1: I'm hungry, wanna go grab a burger?

#2: I'm hungry, wanna go grab a burger

on planet earth at this time?

The former (#1) is cryptically indecipherable as well as rife with generalities (i.e. which planet does the being wish to eat on? And just as significantly, when is this burger cycle intended to take place--and is there any wholetrack time travel involved?). However the latter (#2) provides all of the specificities of time, place, form and event that leads to full as-isness and blown charge for the being on planet earth at this time.

.

ROFL!
ROFL.jpg
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Beliefs. The New Apostolic Reformation is a title originally used by C. Peter Wagner to describe a movement within Pentecostal and charismatic churches...Among those in the movement that inspired the title NAR, there is a wide range of variance on specific beliefs.... Unlike some parts of Protestant Christianity, these include the direct revelation of Christ to each believer, prophecy, and the performance of miracles such as healing.
In the early stages of his hyperbolic hoax, Hubbard was like a mad safecracker frantically trying many differently combinations to open the cash vault and make his getaway before law enforcement shows up and hauls him off to prison. He tried the combination called "SCIENCE" and when he got humiliated he switched to "PHILOSOPHY". And when customers were not lining up to pay big bucks for that, Hubbard once again switched horses and tried out "RELIGION".

And then Hubbard tried to market his pseudoscientific sham by another combination--calling Scientology all three (3) of those at the same time!

Within a short time of trying out "the religion angle" Hubbard tested many religious gimmicks that mimicked the "successful actions" of Christianity, the first of which was using the iconography of crucifixion crosses in advertising graphics and as ministerial jewelry. The cross was found to work and is still in wide usage to this day, approximately 70 years later.

And Hubbard also attempted to arouse religious fervor by many other means, such as CLAIMING MIRACLES such as throwing away prescription eyeglasses before entering his "church" and receiving the miracle of perfect sight that he assured parishioners would happen while he gave his daily sermon and/or group auditing commands.

The stated "End Phenomena" of Dianetics, Scientology, "Clear" and "Operating Thetan" are all nothing more than claimed miracles whether they were labeled as such or otherwise attributed to "advanced scientific technology". But at times Hubbard did not equivocate and directly, unapologetically and audaciously trumpeted the word "MIRACLE", and guaranteed it to his faithful marks. By way of example, the "HSDC" (Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course) required that student auditors literally perform a "miracle" before they were allowed to graduate.

Quite conveniently all of Dianetics and Scientology "miracles" require that the phenomenon is not directly observable, but instead invisible. Selling the invisible (e.g. engrams, implants, spiritual "charge", body thetans, eternity, et al) became Hubbard's greatest "successful action" towards banking fortunes for himself personally and virtually all promotional materials the cult of Scientology publishes/promotes to this day directly guarantee miracles of one kind or another. The major difference between Scientology and other charismatic religions is that one cannot receive a miracle for free by attending a Sunday service; instead Hubbard sold miracles by the hour with sliding scale discounts for bulk purchases.


.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Scientology is promoted as an "Applied Religious Philosophy". To me when you put these three words together it doesn't really make sense. By most interpretations religion and philosophy are separate subjects and how do you apply a religion?

It's been noted that in hypnosis a slightly confused subject is easier to control or maybe Elron just wanted to appeal to a wider audience. Current scientologists seem to often refer to scientology as their religion but before Elron departed very few people did so.

When I got into scientology if someone said "Welcome to our religion" I might have headed for the door. Western science applied to Eastern religion and philosophy all rolled into one - take your pick - how can you lose? Lol
 
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