Veda
Well-known member
Self portrait by Aleister Crowley from whom Hubbard borrowed so much
The https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/is-scientology-satanic.50796/#post-1229569 thread
For years I had the MU (misunderstanding) that occult is the same as satanic which it is not.
Self portrait by Aleister Crowley from whom Hubbard borrowed so much
The https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/is-scientology-satanic.50796/#post-1229569 thread
This is the adjective "Satanic," used in a secular sense.For years I had the MU (misunderstanding) that occult is the same as satanic which it is not.
From dictionary.com
occult
[ uh-kuhlt, ok-uhlt ]SHOW IPA
SYNONYMS|EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR occult ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of or relating to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
hidden from view.
(in early science)
Medicine/Medical. present in amounts too small to be visible:a chemical test to detect occult blood in the stool.
- not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation.
- of a nature not understood, as physical qualities.
- dealing with such qualities; experimental: occult science.
noun
the supernatural or supernatural agencies and affairs considered as a whole (usually preceded by the).
occult studies or sciences (usually preceded by the).
verb (used with object)
to block or shut off (an object) from view; hide.
Astronomy. to hide (a celestial body) by occultation.
verb (used without object)
to become hidden or shut off from view.
Scientology is occult. So is Christianity and . . . and . . .
Here's the whole thing for more thorough word clearing
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!www.dictionary.com
Thelema and "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" originates with Francois Rabelais.That's interesting that L. Ron Hubbard Jr., aka "Nibs" and Ronald DeWolf, told you that Elron was parroting Crowley. It makes perfect sense. Maybe Nibs is also on the record somewhere saying that.
Here are two lines from the wiki article on Crowley which sort of "tones down" his oft quoted "Do what thou wilt . . ."
[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]
oops - this is obviously a reply to Veda which I didn't post correctly.
I love this post. You knocked it out of the park.I think it is...perhaps not in the way most might consider it to be.
At a personal level it probably is because it's an ego stroke instead of addressing the spirit. Nibs says as much in the Penthouse interview. This has the negative result of possibly confusing and derailing beneficial spiritual growth.
However, I personally believe that the real Satanic portion is that it creates spiritual slaves for L. Ron. I think the hidden aspect of this and the hidden aspect of Scientology is where the actual Satanism lies in Scientology.
Does it set adherents up to worship Satan? I think it tried it with Ron's infamous OT8 bulletin where he states he's Lucifer. I think it mimics this worship with the blind allegiance to Ron and all the HIP HIP HOORAYS to a guy who considers himself as the Beast. But the adherents are completely oblivious to this.
The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
Hah - I just came across this on the esmb1 thread mentioned above.Picking up on the quote from wiki:
[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]
If I discover my own True Will and it exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will, then that sounds benign.
However...............................(haha)
If I assume that Good vs. Evil, The Light Side of the Force vs. The Dark Side of the Force and so on always has and always will exist in the universe, what if I find out that my True Will is to be a Rotten Bastard? This would seem to be a problem.
Maybe I need some more auditing to work this out.
or
Maybe there is a koan in this somewhere which needs to be solved.
Apparently Mr. Crowley decided that the Holy Guardian Angel was a good guy/gal which would lead one in the "right" direction.
Scientology takes all of your MEST in order to have the bridge to spiritual freedom...
Scientology cannot be literally considered "satanic", but there is considerable allegorical dna to link Scientology to the religious concept of "Satan".
Particularly viewed in this way:
-- Scientology from the bottom up to OT II is dedicated to "clearing" the mind of obstructions that prevent the spiritual being from advancing out of "MEST hell" into Scientology's "total freedom" eternal heaven. -- Satanic mythology & beliefs all center around the single source of evil which must be fought and vanquished in order to attain eternal bliss--to wit, from OT III and beyond, humans are must battle this universal evil force which is invisible entities sent forth by the devil himself (xenu) with satanic intent. -- At the core of Satan's power are DEMONS or "adversarial spirits" that haunt, incapacitate, terrorize and torture humans.
Once a Scientologist has advanced to OT III (and beyond) all of their salvation is dedicated to (literally) exorcising these demons.
While there is no singular "DEVIL" in Scientology, there are multiple devils who all collaboratively seek to fight/destroy GOD AND HIS GOODNESS, which is to say (in Scientology) against YOU THE GOD. By rebuking the devil and his evil minions (BTs) you may become one with God and take your rightful place upon the throne of heaven.
Clearly, in quadrillions of years, the demon spirits have kicked mankind's ass, therefore whatever TECH the "Devil" is using, it is clearly far more workable than Scientology's.
.
I don't believe in Satan just like I don't believe in Jesus etc.
Who is God?
No one knows for sure.
I thought L Ron Hubbard had some kind of Science to prove who God is but he did not. That was only his postulate.
Religions are mans made up versions of who they think God is. It is packaged and sold and reinforced with fear and guilt.
Some religions have helped mankind - people will behave better because they are part of a religion.
Some religions have destroyed people - ISIS, Scientology and other cults.
HH - excellent post. Thank you and I will purchase that book once you write it.Similar to the conclusions I have reached. . .
No man really knows any significant amount more than any other man about the secrets of the universe, God and what life is. Some are just a little better at marketing their ignorance with a gimmick called "certainty".
This comment goes way beyond the insignificant little cult called Scientology. . . All those millions of spiritual and religious and metaphysical books, lectures, courses and there is still not even one person who can step up to the podium and SHOW anything even slightly different than any other person. Nobody can show exteriorization, nobody can levitate, nobody can show they are talking to God, nobody can read from a bible or sacred book that wasn't written by another man.
Honestly, nobody knows much of anything about what the hell is going on or what we are all doing here or what happens later.
I suppose one has to decide at some point whether life is happier and more livable with the chaos of unknowns---or made better by adopting some belief system that puts order into the painful absence of knowledge.
I have a scenario that I run in my mind every so often that always makes me wonder and smile. It's a WHAT IF scenario.
WHAT IF: A remote desert island is found where the inhabitants are the most joyful people in the history of the world. But they believe really wacky superstitious things that were debunked by science & medicine a many centuries ago. Would it be better to educate them to facts, if that ruined their cherished beliefs and therefore made them profoundly less happy? Or would it be better to let them life in blissful ignorance? When I sell one or more of my companies I might go back to writing and see if it develops into a novel or screenplay, who knows.
I don't have the answer to which is better. That's often what drives a writer to write---to discover the answer to a fascinating question.
Hubbard didn't exactly say he was Lucifer, who he described as a mythical representation, and all this in the context of the Galactic Federation vs the Marcabian implanters (who gave us Christ/the devil, fedora hats etc.) who are, themselves, controlled by sinister beings outside the physical universe.I think it is...perhaps not in the way most might consider it to be.
At a personal level it probably is because it's an ego stroke instead of addressing the spirit. Nibs says as much in the Penthouse interview. This has the negative result of possibly confusing and derailing beneficial spiritual growth.
However, I personally believe that the real Satanic portion is that it creates spiritual slaves for L. Ron. I think the hidden aspect of this and the hidden aspect of Scientology is where the actual Satanism lies in Scientology.
Does it set adherents up to worship Satan? I think it tried it with Ron's infamous OT8 bulletin where he states he's Lucifer. I think it mimics this worship with the blind allegiance to Ron and all the HIP HIP HOORAYS to a guy who considers himself as the Beast. But the adherents are completely oblivious to this.
The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
I'm not suggesting that anyone adopt Crowley as a guru, or use his writings as a way to decipher the mysteries of life, the universe, and everything.Picking up on the quote from wiki:
[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]
If I discover my own True Will and it exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will, then that sounds benign.
However...............................(haha)
If I assume that Good vs. Evil, The Light Side of the Force vs. The Dark Side of the Force and so on always has and always will exist in the universe, what if I find out that my True Will is to be a Rotten Bastard? This would seem to be a problem.
Maybe I need some more auditing to work this out.
or
Maybe there is a koan in this somewhere which needs to be solved.
Apparently Mr. Crowley decided that the Holy Guardian Angel was a good guy/gal which would lead one in the "right" direction.
I get what you're saying. My posts tend to be facetious but I realize the cult continues to ruin lives so I'll tone it down.I'm not suggesting that anyone adopt Crowley as a guru, or use his writings as a way to decipher the mysteries of life, the universe, and everything.
Crowley was just one piece in the Scientological puzzle, and examining Crowley's writings was useful in removing the mystique that Hubbard had created around himself and Scientology.
OK, I just received a telex from Ron, and he's pissed that you wrote that!The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.