Is Scientology Satanic?

guanoloco

As-Wased
I think it is...perhaps not in the way most might consider it to be.

At a personal level it probably is because it's an ego stroke instead of addressing the spirit. Nibs says as much in the Penthouse interview. This has the negative result of possibly confusing and derailing beneficial spiritual growth.

However, I personally believe that the real Satanic portion is that it creates spiritual slaves for L. Ron. I think the hidden aspect of this and the hidden aspect of Scientology is where the actual Satanism lies in Scientology.

Does it set adherents up to worship Satan? I think it tried it with Ron's infamous OT8 bulletin where he states he's Lucifer. I think it mimics this worship with the blind allegiance to Ron and all the HIP HIP HOORAYS to a guy who considers himself as the Beast. But the adherents are completely oblivious to this.

The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Interesting question. Is Scientology satanic?

Considering there is more than one (1) definition for the term, let's break it down. Editorial responses in blue.

Princeton's WordNet Dictionary:
satanic -adj:
  1. demonic no, diabolic yes, diabolical yes, fiendish sometimes, extremely evil or cruel fairly often, infernal sometimes, satanic no, unholy(adj) consistently,
  2. Satanic(adj): of or relating to Satan no


- - - - -​
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
..

Scientology cannot be literally considered "satanic", but there is considerable allegorical dna to link Scientology to the religious concept of "Satan".

Particularly viewed in this way:

-- Scientology from the bottom up to OT II is dedicated to "clearing" the mind of obstructions that prevent the spiritual being from advancing out of "MEST hell" into Scientology's "total freedom" eternal heaven.
-- Satanic mythology & beliefs all center around the single source of evil which must be fought and vanquished in order to attain eternal bliss--to wit, from OT III and beyond, humans are must battle this universal evil force which is invisible entities sent forth by the devil himself (xenu) with satanic intent.
-- At the core of Satan's power are DEMONS or "adversarial spirits" that haunt, incapacitate, terrorize and torture humans.

Once a Scientologist has advanced to OT III (and beyond) all of their salvation is dedicated to (literally) exorcising these demons.

While there is no singular "DEVIL" in Scientology, there are multiple devils who all collaboratively seek to fight/destroy GOD AND HIS GOODNESS, which is to say (in Scientology) against YOU THE GOD. By rebuking the devil and his evil minions (BTs) you may become one with God and take your rightful place upon the throne of heaven.

Clearly, in quadrillions of years, the demon spirits have kicked mankind's ass, therefore whatever TECH the "Devil" is using, it is clearly far more workable than Scientology's.

.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member


Self portrait by Aleister Crowley from whom Hubbard borrowed so much

The https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/is-scientology-satanic.50796/#post-1229569 thread
For years I had the MU (misunderstanding) that occult is the same as satanic which it is not.
From dictionary.com
occult
[ uh-kuhlt, ok-uhlt ]SHOW IPA
SYNONYMS|EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR occult ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of or relating to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
hidden from view.

(in early science)
  1. not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation.
  2. of a nature not understood, as physical qualities.
  3. dealing with such qualities; experimental: occult science.
Medicine/Medical. present in amounts too small to be visible:a chemical test to detect occult blood in the stool.
noun
the supernatural or supernatural agencies and affairs considered as a whole (usually preceded by the).
occult studies or sciences (usually preceded by the).
verb (used with object)
to block or shut off (an object) from view; hide.
Astronomy. to hide (a celestial body) by occultation.
verb (used without object)
to become hidden or shut off from view.

Scientology is occult. So is Christianity and . . . and . . .

Here's the whole thing for more thorough word clearing

 
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Veda

Well-known member
For years I had the MU (misunderstanding) that occult is the same as satanic which it is not.
From dictionary.com
occult
[ uh-kuhlt, ok-uhlt ]SHOW IPA
SYNONYMS|EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR occult ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of or relating to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
hidden from view.

(in early science)
  1. not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation.
  2. of a nature not understood, as physical qualities.
  3. dealing with such qualities; experimental: occult science.
Medicine/Medical. present in amounts too small to be visible:a chemical test to detect occult blood in the stool.
noun
the supernatural or supernatural agencies and affairs considered as a whole (usually preceded by the).
occult studies or sciences (usually preceded by the).
verb (used with object)
to block or shut off (an object) from view; hide.
Astronomy. to hide (a celestial body) by occultation.
verb (used without object)
to become hidden or shut off from view.

Scientology is occult. So is Christianity and . . . and . . .

Here's the whole thing for more thorough word clearing

This is the adjective "Satanic," used in a secular sense.

The linked thread in the opening post, above, addresses it more.

Hubbard came out of the closet on this during 1952 and 1953. His view rejected God and elevated the individual to God-like status. He sent Scientologists on a huge ego trip when he told them they were, each one, an Infinite Mind.

"The preclear will be found to be intensely aberrated who has sworn allegiance to some infinite beingness."

Aleister Crowley also expressed the view that there is a multiplicity of infinite minds, and that God, as known through the Judaeo-Christian tradition, is an object of worship only to the rabble and the weak minded - "hoi polloi," "minions" and "D(egraded) B(eings)s," as Hubbard called them.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Christian and have a fondness for the writings of Aleister Crowley. During the late 1970s, when Weiser's books, on Broadway in Manhattan, independely published most of Crowley's works, I bought and read most - or all - of his books.

When a Book Store person from the Advanced Organization in Los Angeles (after the much hyped release of "NOTs") called, telling me that the (old) OT 8 I had purchased was no longer available (Later, I discovered it had never existed), and that I had money on account that he - as a struggling Book Store Officer - wanted me to use to purchase tapes, I bought the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures.

When I stated listening to the PDC tapes, almost immediately I noticed that Hubbard was echoing ideas and wordings, including entire sentences, that had come from Crowley's writings.

Up to this point, what I had been told, by Scientology, about Hubbard's connection to Crowley, was that he had "been sent, by Naval Intelligence, to break up a black magic group." That was the shore story concocted by Hubbard after an embarrassing article appeared in the Times of London, during 1969, connecting Hubbard to Jack Parsons and Crowley. (Worse, the Times article connected Hubbard to Sara, his second wife, who had been officially erased.)

That embarrassment blew over and, years later, when the PDC tapes began to be sold to the public, in cassette form, was completely forgotten by the stat-driven yet starry-eyed Scientologists.

Some years later, during the mid 1980s, I had the opportunity to talk with L. Ron Hubbard Junior, who was with his father in Philadelphia in 1952, and asked about that period and the Crowley connection. He confirmed what I already had surmised, that his father was using Crowley as his main source of information and inspiration during the foundational, formative, years of Scientology.

I'm being a bit mischievous, and exercising some poetic license, when I ask "Is Scientology Satanic?" but there is something to the idea.

The subject came up after a recent Bunk Bunker video, and was addressed on The "Most Scientologists are Christians" https://exscn.net/forum/threads/most-scientologists-are-christians.50762/ thread
 

Zertel

Well-known member
That's interesting that L. Ron Hubbard Jr., aka "Nibs" and Ronald DeWolf, told you that Elron was parroting Crowley. It makes perfect sense. Maybe Nibs is also on the record somewhere saying that.

Here are two lines from the wiki article on Crowley which sort of "tones down" his oft quoted "Do what thou wilt . . ."

[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]

oops - this is obviously a reply to Veda which I didn't post correctly.
 

Veda

Well-known member
That's interesting that L. Ron Hubbard Jr., aka "Nibs" and Ronald DeWolf, told you that Elron was parroting Crowley. It makes perfect sense. Maybe Nibs is also on the record somewhere saying that.

Here are two lines from the wiki article on Crowley which sort of "tones down" his oft quoted "Do what thou wilt . . ."

[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]

oops - this is obviously a reply to Veda which I didn't post correctly.
Thelema and "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" originates with Francois Rabelais.

Thelemapedia: The Encyclopedia of Thelema & Magick | François Rabelais

Crowley modified it.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Picking up on the quote from wiki:

[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]

If I discover my own True Will and it exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will, then that sounds benign.

However...............................(haha)

If I assume that Good vs. Evil, The Light Side of the Force vs. The Dark Side of the Force and so on always has and always will exist in the universe, what if I find out that my True Will is to be a Rotten Bastard? This would seem to be a problem.

Maybe I need some more auditing to work this out.

or

Maybe there is a koan in this somewhere which needs to be solved.

Apparently Mr. Crowley decided that the Holy Guardian Angel was a good guy/gal which would lead one in the "right" direction.
 

JustSheila

Well-known member
I think it is...perhaps not in the way most might consider it to be.

At a personal level it probably is because it's an ego stroke instead of addressing the spirit. Nibs says as much in the Penthouse interview. This has the negative result of possibly confusing and derailing beneficial spiritual growth.

However, I personally believe that the real Satanic portion is that it creates spiritual slaves for L. Ron. I think the hidden aspect of this and the hidden aspect of Scientology is where the actual Satanism lies in Scientology.

Does it set adherents up to worship Satan? I think it tried it with Ron's infamous OT8 bulletin where he states he's Lucifer. I think it mimics this worship with the blind allegiance to Ron and all the HIP HIP HOORAYS to a guy who considers himself as the Beast. But the adherents are completely oblivious to this.

The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
I love this post. :winner: You knocked it out of the park.

Bookmarked for tomorrow; there’s so much to discuss there.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
No, IMO, Scientology has nothing to do with worshiping a god named Satan.
Scientology is a polytheistic religion where we are all "fallen gods".
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Picking up on the quote from wiki:

[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]

If I discover my own True Will and it exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will, then that sounds benign.

However...............................(haha)

If I assume that Good vs. Evil, The Light Side of the Force vs. The Dark Side of the Force and so on always has and always will exist in the universe, what if I find out that my True Will is to be a Rotten Bastard? This would seem to be a problem.

Maybe I need some more auditing to work this out.

or

Maybe there is a koan in this somewhere which needs to be solved.

Apparently Mr. Crowley decided that the Holy Guardian Angel was a good guy/gal which would lead one in the "right" direction.
Hah - I just came across this on the esmb1 thread mentioned above.

[Aleister Crowley claimed that Aiwass, whom he also identified as Lucifer, was his “Holy Guardian Angel,” who had dictated to Crowley his most famous writing The Book of the Law.]

Lucifer in this case being the Light Bringer or bringer of enlightenment.

Here's Lucifer bringing Light to some ladies.

Crestfallen Kings and Queens
Comforting in their Faith.
Unbeknownst to them
Is the Presence of the Wraith.

haha

 
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O

Out Ethics

Guest
..

Scientology cannot be literally considered "satanic", but there is considerable allegorical dna to link Scientology to the religious concept of "Satan".

Particularly viewed in this way:

-- Scientology from the bottom up to OT II is dedicated to "clearing" the mind of obstructions that prevent the spiritual being from advancing out of "MEST hell" into Scientology's "total freedom" eternal heaven.
-- Satanic mythology & beliefs all center around the single source of evil which must be fought and vanquished in order to attain eternal bliss--to wit, from OT III and beyond, humans are must battle this universal evil force which is invisible entities sent forth by the devil himself (xenu) with satanic intent.
-- At the core of Satan's power are DEMONS or "adversarial spirits" that haunt, incapacitate, terrorize and torture humans.

Once a Scientologist has advanced to OT III (and beyond) all of their salvation is dedicated to (literally) exorcising these demons.

While there is no singular "DEVIL" in Scientology, there are multiple devils who all collaboratively seek to fight/destroy GOD AND HIS GOODNESS, which is to say (in Scientology) against YOU THE GOD. By rebuking the devil and his evil minions (BTs) you may become one with God and take your rightful place upon the throne of heaven.

Clearly, in quadrillions of years, the demon spirits have kicked mankind's ass, therefore whatever TECH the "Devil" is using, it is clearly far more workable than Scientology's.

.
Scientology takes all of your MEST in order to have the bridge to spiritual freedom.

That is part of the trap.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
I don't believe in Satan just like I don't believe in Jesus etc.
Who is God?
No one knows for sure.
I thought L Ron Hubbard had some kind of Science to prove who God is but he did not. That was only his postulate.
Religions are mans made up versions of who they think God is. It is packaged and sold and reinforced with fear and guilt.
Some religions have helped mankind - people will behave better because they are part of a religion.
Some religions have destroyed people - ISIS, Scientology and other cults.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I don't believe in Satan just like I don't believe in Jesus etc.
Who is God?
No one knows for sure.
I thought L Ron Hubbard had some kind of Science to prove who God is but he did not. That was only his postulate.
Religions are mans made up versions of who they think God is. It is packaged and sold and reinforced with fear and guilt.
Some religions have helped mankind - people will behave better because they are part of a religion.
Some religions have destroyed people - ISIS, Scientology and other cults.

Similar to the conclusions I have reached. . .

No man really knows any significant amount more than any other man about the secrets of the universe, God and what life is. Some are just a little better at marketing their ignorance with a gimmick called "certainty".

This comment goes way beyond the insignificant little cult called Scientology. . . All those millions of spiritual and religious and metaphysical books, lectures, courses and there is still not even one person who can step up to the podium and SHOW anything even slightly different than any other person. Nobody can show exteriorization, nobody can levitate, nobody can show they are talking to God, nobody can read from a bible or sacred book that wasn't written by another man.

Honestly, nobody knows much of anything about what the hell is going on or what we are all doing here or what happens later.
I suppose one has to decide at some point whether life is happier and more livable with the chaos of unknowns---or made better by adopting some belief system that puts order into the painful absence of knowledge.

I have a scenario that I run in my mind every so often that always makes me wonder and smile. It's a WHAT IF scenario.

WHAT IF: A remote desert island is found where the inhabitants are the most joyful people in the history of the world. But they believe really wacky superstitious things that were debunked by science & medicine a many centuries ago. Would it be better to educate them to facts, if that ruined their cherished beliefs and therefore made them profoundly less happy? Or would it be better to let them life in blissful ignorance? When I sell one or more of my companies I might go back to writing and see if it develops into a novel or screenplay, who knows.

I don't have the answer to which is better. That's often what drives a writer to write---to discover the answer to a fascinating question.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
Similar to the conclusions I have reached. . .

No man really knows any significant amount more than any other man about the secrets of the universe, God and what life is. Some are just a little better at marketing their ignorance with a gimmick called "certainty".

This comment goes way beyond the insignificant little cult called Scientology. . . All those millions of spiritual and religious and metaphysical books, lectures, courses and there is still not even one person who can step up to the podium and SHOW anything even slightly different than any other person. Nobody can show exteriorization, nobody can levitate, nobody can show they are talking to God, nobody can read from a bible or sacred book that wasn't written by another man.

Honestly, nobody knows much of anything about what the hell is going on or what we are all doing here or what happens later.
I suppose one has to decide at some point whether life is happier and more livable with the chaos of unknowns---or made better by adopting some belief system that puts order into the painful absence of knowledge.

I have a scenario that I run in my mind every so often that always makes me wonder and smile. It's a WHAT IF scenario.

WHAT IF: A remote desert island is found where the inhabitants are the most joyful people in the history of the world. But they believe really wacky superstitious things that were debunked by science & medicine a many centuries ago. Would it be better to educate them to facts, if that ruined their cherished beliefs and therefore made them profoundly less happy? Or would it be better to let them life in blissful ignorance? When I sell one or more of my companies I might go back to writing and see if it develops into a novel or screenplay, who knows.

I don't have the answer to which is better. That's often what drives a writer to write---to discover the answer to a fascinating question.
HH - excellent post. Thank you and I will purchase that book once you write it.
 

Veda

Well-known member
I think it is...perhaps not in the way most might consider it to be.

At a personal level it probably is because it's an ego stroke instead of addressing the spirit. Nibs says as much in the Penthouse interview. This has the negative result of possibly confusing and derailing beneficial spiritual growth.

However, I personally believe that the real Satanic portion is that it creates spiritual slaves for L. Ron. I think the hidden aspect of this and the hidden aspect of Scientology is where the actual Satanism lies in Scientology.

Does it set adherents up to worship Satan? I think it tried it with Ron's infamous OT8 bulletin where he states he's Lucifer. I think it mimics this worship with the blind allegiance to Ron and all the HIP HIP HOORAYS to a guy who considers himself as the Beast. But the adherents are completely oblivious to this.

The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
Hubbard didn't exactly say he was Lucifer, who he described as a mythical representation, and all this in the context of the Galactic Federation vs the Marcabian implanters (who gave us Christ/the devil, fedora hats etc.) who are, themselves, controlled by sinister beings outside the physical universe.

According to David Mayo, Hubbard concocted this OT 8 1980 HCOB theoretical content when he was on sedatives (happy pills).

Hubbard told tall tales. He made up stuff.

Personally, if any of this is of interest to anyone, I'd focus on the more tangible aspects of this cult (including its applied - manipulative - psychology) and, as I mentioned, in a secular sense, with some poetic license, Scientology Inc. would qualify as being "Satanic," and "Satanic" in a cartoonish, tragic, and monstrous way.


OT 8 flashing a bankroll






 

Veda

Well-known member
Picking up on the quote from wiki:

[Thelema revolves around the idea that human beings each have their own True Will that they should discover and pursue, and that this exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will that pervades the universe.[232] Crowley referred to this process of searching and discovery of one's True Will to be "the Great Work" or the attaining of the "knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".]

If I discover my own True Will and it exists in harmony with the Cosmic Will, then that sounds benign.

However...............................(haha)

If I assume that Good vs. Evil, The Light Side of the Force vs. The Dark Side of the Force and so on always has and always will exist in the universe, what if I find out that my True Will is to be a Rotten Bastard? This would seem to be a problem.

Maybe I need some more auditing to work this out.

or

Maybe there is a koan in this somewhere which needs to be solved.

Apparently Mr. Crowley decided that the Holy Guardian Angel was a good guy/gal which would lead one in the "right" direction.
I'm not suggesting that anyone adopt Crowley as a guru, or use his writings as a way to decipher the mysteries of life, the universe, and everything.

Crowley was just one piece in the Scientological puzzle, and examining Crowley's writings was useful in removing the mystique that Hubbard had created around himself and Scientology.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
I'm not suggesting that anyone adopt Crowley as a guru, or use his writings as a way to decipher the mysteries of life, the universe, and everything.

Crowley was just one piece in the Scientological puzzle, and examining Crowley's writings was useful in removing the mystique that Hubbard had created around himself and Scientology.
I get what you're saying. My posts tend to be facetious but I realize the cult continues to ruin lives so I'll tone it down.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
The Tech is god in Scientology and the OT states are heaven.
OK, I just received a telex from Ron, and he's pissed that you wrote that!

In all seriousness, at one point a program was created within the CoS whose purpose was "to create the image of L. Ron Hubbard as the next messiah, just like Christ, Mohammed, or Buddha"

For anyone unfamiliar with this, Tony Ortega published an excerpt of Nancy Many's book, My Billion Year Contract as she was directly involved with the program:

Scientology’s messiah? ‘Hubbard believed he was as great as Jesus, Buddha, & Mohammed’
Scientology’s messiah? ‘Hubbard believed he was as great as Jesus, Buddha, & Mohammed’ | The Underground Bunker

Excerpt:

This week in our series from books about Scientology, we have an excerpt from Nancy Many’s fascinating 2009 testament, My Billion-Year Contract: Memoir of a Former Scientologist. Nancy is the only former church member who has written about the “messianic project” of the late 1970s, and we’re glad she gave us this section to show you…

In the late ’70s, I worked on a series of public questionnaires that had been ordered by L. Ron Hubbard entitled the messianic surveys. There were a series of them, and some involved research and finding specialized information. I did the parts that I was handed by going to the library to research information on how individuals and some small groups made it to the international stage. How did these obscure individuals actually make it to the forefront seemingly overnight? I had discovered that while the public seemed to see them as appearing overnight, there had actually been a lot of work behind the scenes to create just that impression.

<snip>

(Read Full Post at Link Above)
 
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