Is Captain David Miscavige’s Claim of 6601 Sea Org Members Real? Or Are There Far Fewer?

J. Swift

Well-known member


1. Earth’s population: 7,802,093,142
2. Each Sea Org member is responsible for 1,181,818 people on Earth


The division of numbers informs us of Scientology’s claim to have 6601 Sea Org members globally. As we will argue, we think the number is inflated by ~1000 people. Scientology has always inflated its numbers. Scientology has variously claimed that it has 12 million members, 8 million member, and millions of members.

In terms of Sea Org members, we agree with Aaron Smith-Levin’s estimate of 5180 Sea Org members globally. We add 300 OSA members for an estimated total of 5480 Sea Org members.

Below are Aaron’s estimates of Sea Org numbers — and he admits these are probably high but he raises his estimates in the interest of fairness. Scroll down to watch Aaron’s video where he breaks down his numbers.

Aaron Smith-Levin’s Estimates:
Sea Org Service Orgs – Deliver Scientology services:

Flag Land Base, Clearwater, Florida:
A. 1600 Sea Org members at Flag Land Base in Clearwater for all Orgs as follows:
a. 1000 in the Flag Service Org (FSO)
b. 350 for the Flag Crew Org
c. 100 for the FLB Org
d. 100 for CMO Clearwater
e. 25 for the IAS Flag
f. 25 for RTC Flag
Sea Org at Flag Estimate: 1600

Sea Org Delivery Orgs Outside of Clearwater:

B. 150 Sea Org members on the Freewinds.
C. 200 for AOLA
D. 200 for ASHO
E. 100 for LA Org
F. 150 for Celebrity Centre International
G. 100 for AOSH UK
H. 100 for AOSH EU
I. 100 for AOSH ANZO
J. 100 for Africa
Sea Org Delivery Orgs Outside of Flag Estimate: 1200


Sea Org CLO Management Orgs:

K. 50 for CLO WUS – does not count CMO
L. 50 for CLO EUS – does not count CMO
M. 50 for CLO Canada – does not count CMO
N. 50 for CLO Europe – does not count CMO
O. 50 for CLO ANZO – does not count CMO
P. 50 for CLO Latin America –
Q. 50 for CLO Africa
CLO Sea Org Estimate: 350

R. 500 at INT Base in San Jacinto as follows:

a. 50 in RTC INT
b. 100 in CMO INT
c. 300 in Golden Era
d. 50 in the INT Exec Management Committee
INT Base Sea Org Estimate: 500


Other Sea Org Orgs:

S. 300 International Liaison Office (ILO) in Hollywood
T. 150 at Scientology Media Productions in Hollywood
U. 100 at Bridge Publications in Hollywood
V. 75 at New Era Publications in Europe
W. 50 at Author Services Int’l (ASI)
X. 25 at Church of Spiritual Technology (CST)
Other Sea Org Orgs Estimate: 700


Commodore Messenger Org (CMO) Units:

Y. 50 in West US (CMO WUS)
a. 30 on the Freewinds (CMO Freewinds)
b. 25 in East US (CMO EUS)
c. 25 in Canada
d. 25 in Europe
e. 25 in ANZO
f. 25 in Latin America
g. 25 in Africa
h. 50 in IXU in Hollywood
CMO Estimate: 330

Total: 5180 Sea Org members in Sea Org Delivery and Service Orgs and Management Bodies



In his video, Aaron Smith-Levin made it clear that he was focused only upon Scientology’s Sea Org delivery Orgs and management bodies. Accordingly, he did not address Scientology’s notorious and criminally-oriented Office of Special Affairs (OSA) members. We estimate 300 Sea Org total in the Office of Special Affairs. These Sea Org are posted in Legal, PR, Investigations Unit, and the Internet Unit. We further estimate there are 100 Sea Org members in the IASA which is the operating arm of David Miscavige’s big fat slush fund called the IAS.

Smith-Levin also does not discuss Scientology’s so-called “social betterment groups” are actually secular nonprofit front groups used to infiltrarte police departments, government agencies, schools, and other institutions where Scientology can collect data and carefully cultivate strategic relationships to “safepoint” itself. These social betterment groups are small and staffed by OSA PR Sea Org members. A few of them have PO boxes as an address. We therefore include these groups as part of the 300 Sea Org in OSA. As Mike Rinder has written:
Scientology has many front groups that are designed to create the impression that the organization is a benevolent group that does good work in their community. I have noted many times that the “good work” does not happen if it cannot be documented by a video team who then use the video to fundraise and for propaganda pieces about the great things they are doing around the world…
Before his arrest and indictment on on three felony counts of forcible rape, Scientology’s front group Youth for Human Rights positioned actor Danny Masterson as a humanitarian and anti-drug crusader. Scientology did this even as OSA was brutally attempting to cover up the numerous rapes Masterson allegedly committed. OSA did this by stalking and terrorizing Masterson’s victims. A PR photo of Masterson speaking at a Youth for Human Rights events:



Scientology’s Front Groups:

ABLE: Association for Better Living and Education
WISE: World Institute of Scientology Enterprises
Narconon
The Way to Happiness Foundation
Citizens Commission on Human Rights
Youth for Human Rights
Drug Free World
Applied Scholastics
Volunteer Ministers

Total Sea Org members with 300 OSA and the 100 IASA SO members added: 5580.

Aaron Smith-Levin estimates there are 6000 Class V Org staff members. These Class V staff members are not Sea Org and serve 2.5 year or 5 year contracts. This brings Scientology’s total global labor estimate to 11,800 members. This is almost 1/3 of all Scientologists based on an estimated total membership of 35,000 Scientologists.

Click to read and comment on this article at the Scientology Money Project.

Aaron Smith-Levin’s video:

 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
if i recall correctly Tony Ortega has cited a figure down to around 3,500 sea org these days, and that seems more plausible to me. that's keeping in mind reports in recent years of thinning of the ranks, on top of attrition due to age and health.

one reason for a lower number making more sense is it would be more in keeping with the apparent size of the active membership, which i think by all indicators is more like 10-17 thousand, though maybe there are 35 thousand total who still hold IAS memberships and are in good standing.

the simple way i look at it is there are about 150 orgs worldwide and i see an average of around 40 people in photos of gatherings for events these days, which comes to 6,000, plus several thousand more in LA and Clearwater. conversely, to have 35,000 you'd have to have 5,000 served by advanced orgs in both LA and Clearwater, and then an average of 160 at each of the local orgs, which seems way high by any observable measure of any of those locations. i've been looking at the mission network and it appears so badly decimated that it can't count for much at all.

if there are 35 thousand, what orgs are they at? and if it's realistically more like 10-17 thousand, does that membership really support 6 thousand sea org, or less than a 3:1 ratio?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
if i recall correctly Tony Ortega has cited a figure down to around 3,500 sea org these days, and that seems more plausible to me. that's keeping in mind reports in recent years of thinning of the ranks, on top of attrition due to age and health.

one reason for a lower number making more sense is it would be more in keeping with the apparent size of the active membership, which i think by all indicators is more like 10-17 thousand, though maybe there are 35 thousand total who still hold IAS memberships and are in good standing.

the simple way i look at it is there are about 150 orgs worldwide and i see an average of around 40 people in photos of gatherings for events these days, which comes to 6,000, plus several thousand more in LA and Clearwater. conversely, to have 35,000 you'd have to have 5,000 served by advanced orgs in both LA and Clearwater, and then an average of 160 at each of the local orgs, which seems way high by any observable measure of any of those locations. i've been looking at the mission network and it appears so badly decimated that it can't count for much at all.

if there are 35 thousand, what orgs are they at? and if it's realistically more like 10-17 thousand, does that membership really support 6 thousand sea org, or less than a 3:1 ratio?

Either way, whichever figure is used, your estimate or Aaron's, it's pathetically low. 35,000 people will all fit easily into one football stadium.

Per what Tony O posted last year, Scientology seems to be doing OK in Taiwan and Mexico City. We don't now exactly how many Scientologists are in either place.


 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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Per what Tony O posted last year, Scientology seems to be doing OK in Taiwan and Mexico City. We don't know exactly how many Scientologists are in either place.
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It's extremely difficult to estimate the number of PCs in any particular city or country.

It is, however, quite possible to scientifically calculate the exact number of PBs using the following algebraic equation:

PB = (ASM)(99%)


GLOSSARY:
PC (abbv.): 1. Pre-Clear. 2. A PC is any human who has not yet attained the state of Clear.
PB (abbv.): 1. Pre-Blows. 2. A PB is any human who has purchased Scientology books, courses and/or
auditing—but not yet in sufficient quantities to experience the inexorable realization that it's a hoax.
ASM: Active Scientology Marks.

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Karen#1

Well-known member
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It's extremely difficult to estimate the number of PCs in any particular city or country.

It is, however, extremely accurate to to scientifically calculate the exact number of PBs using the following algebraic equation:

PB(99%) = AM


GLOSSARY:
PC (abbv.): 1. Pre-Clear. 2. A PC is any human who has not yet attained the state of Clear.
PB (abbv.): 1. Pre-Blows. 2. A PB is any human who has purchased Scientology books, courses and/or
auditing—but not yet in sufficient quantities to experience the inexorable realization that it's a hoax.
AM (abbv.|): Active Marks.

.
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
 

J. Swift

Well-known member
Another metric would be Pre-Blow Pressure (PBP) which is measured by enturbulation units x the speed of money-drain2.

PBP increases arithmetically at first as it is restrained by the internal gravity of one's own thought-stopping. However, the gravity of thought-stopping collapses when one realizes the con. The Blow is characterized by a sudden release of free energy which is converted into an energetic reading of everything about Scientology on the internet which previously was deemed entheta and Black PR.

A 2019 field study of the debris field around a Blow site located a miniature podium rotting in the sun. Foam columns with faded gold paint were also located. Archeologists identified a heavy residue of scotch-infused spittle on the podium. The ruins are cheap cultic artifice and have been seen at other Blow sites. Mid-event blows are more common than realized, i.e. run before the regges descend to feed upon human flesh as they rip sinew from bone in search of credit cards, hidden cash, crypto wallets, checkbooks, loose change, gold teeth, etc. The horrific spectacle ends badly for the Unblown who are still in.

boneyard.4.jpg
boneyard.3.jpg
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Another metric would be Pre-Blow Pressure (PBP) which is measured by enturbulation units x the speed of money-drain2.

PBP increases arithmetically at first as it is restrained by the internal gravity of one's own thought-stopping. However, the gravity of thought-stopping collapses when one realizes the con. The Blow is characterized by a sudden release of free energy which is converted into an energetic reading of everything about Scientology on the internet which previously was deemed entheta and Black PR.

A 2019 field study of the debris field around a Blow site located a miniature podium rotting in the sun. Foam columns with faded gold paint were also located. Archeologists identified a heavy residue of scotch-infused spittle on the podium. The ruins are cheap cultic artifice and have been seen at other Blow sites. Mid-event blows are more common than realized, i.e. run before the regges descend to feed upon human flesh as they rip sinew from bone in search of credit cards, hidden cash, crypto wallets, checkbooks, loose change, gold teeth, etc. The horrific spectacle ends badly for the Unblown who are still in.

View attachment 16995
View attachment 16996

LOL!

You had me at "pre-blow pressure"! LOL. And--actually, your description a person's mind maintaining some kind of equilibrium thru the pressure-release values of "thought stopping" restraint is worthy of inclusion in any updated version of Pascals Laws of Hydraulics!

Jeez, that whole post was so hilariously entertaining!


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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Either way, whichever figure is used, your estimate or Aaron's, it's pathetically low. 35,000 people will all fit easily into one football stadium.

Per what Tony O posted last year, Scientology seems to be doing OK in Taiwan and Mexico City. We don't now exactly how many Scientologists are in either place.
speaking of venues...

there are also the reality checks that scientology has struggled to make the Shrine in LA (max. cap. 6,300) appear full (probably with much of the back of the upper balcony and main floor actually empty) even once a year now, having already moved other events to other venues; and in Clearwater they no longer need overflow tents for events at Ruth Eckerd (max. cap. 2,180). and the big annual event at Saint Hill, which probably attracts a lot of US attendees, fits in a big tent; i don't remember seeing good estimates but i'd guess it's 1,500 to 2,000 tops. that's 10,000 total at most, and my guess is that they really only about half fill the shrine (reports are that even decades ago they struggled with sections of empty seats) which would make it more like 7,000.

while we don't seem to know as much about other places, i also don't see any sign that orgs there are much bigger than the shrunken ones in the US and Europe. and i'm pretty sure if they were packing graduation events, auditoriums and halls, or even needing arenas like they did in the US at one point, they would be photographing it from every favorable angle and spreading the images far and wide in an attempt to bolster the 'expansion' claim that seems key to their propaganda these days.

show me the scientologists!

 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
speaking of venues...

there are also the reality checks that scientology has struggled to make the Shrine in LA (max. cap. 6,300) appear full (probably with much of the back of the upper balcony and main floor actually empty) even once a year now, having already moved other events to other venues; and in Clearwater they no longer need overflow tents for events at Ruth Eckerd (max. cap. 2,180). and the big annual event at Saint Hill, which probably attracts a lot of US attendees, fits in a big tent; i don't remember seeing good estimates but i'd guess it's 1,500 to 2,000 tops. that's 10,000 total at most, and my guess is that they really only about half fill the shrine (reports are that even decades ago they struggled with sections of empty seats) which would make it more like 7,000.

while we don't seem to know as much about other places, i also don't see any sign that orgs there are much bigger than the shrunken ones in the US and Europe. and i'm pretty sure if they were packing graduation events, auditoriums and halls, or even needing arenas like they did in the US at one point, they would be photographing it from every favorable angle and spreading the images far and wide in an attempt to bolster the 'expansion' claim that seems key to their propaganda these days.

show me the scientologists!


I did a head count on that photo and came up with less than 12,000,000. But in all fairness I would want to give Scientology the benefit of the doubt in case that many of the attendees were temporarily on a bathroom break our outside smoking Kools.

I think they are off to a splendid start, because they have a very nice TENT. Kind of like a revival tent, ain't it?!

All they need now is a large inventory of blessed prayer cloths that are free when you donate. And they also need a dozen or so strong parishioners on stage to catch those who lined up for their miracle and fall backwards when slapped in the forehead sharply with the command "HEALEDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!"

And oh yeah, an organist who can play triumphant flourishes every time a random believer in the audience screams out things like "RON JUST HEALED MY SUGAR DIABETES, PRAISE THE LORD!"

ps: if none of that makes planetary clearing a reality, we'll be forced to bring out the poisonous snakes for next Sunday's sermon.

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onceuponatime

Well-known member
Total Sea Org members with 300 OSA and the 100 IASA SO members added: 5580.

Aaron Smith-Levin estimates there are 6000 Class V Org staff members. These Class V staff members are not Sea Org and serve 2.5 year or 5 year contracts. This brings Scientology’s total global labor estimate to 11,800 members. This is almost 1/3 of all Scientologists based on an estimated total membership of 35,000 Scientologists.
These estimates for SO and Staff make sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised though if it was a bit high and the real numbers were under 10K. 35K Scientologists sounds a little high to me but not out of the realm of possibility. I'd personally guess closer to 25K.

if i recall correctly Tony Ortega has cited a figure down to around 3,500 sea org these days, and that seems more plausible to me. that's keeping in mind reports in recent years of thinning of the ranks, on top of attrition due to age and health.

one reason for a lower number making more sense is it would be more in keeping with the apparent size of the active membership, which i think by all indicators is more like 10-17 thousand, though maybe there are 35 thousand total who still hold IAS memberships and are in good standing.

the simple way i look at it is there are about 150 orgs worldwide and i see an average of around 40 people in photos of gatherings for events these days, which comes to 6,000, plus several thousand more in LA and Clearwater. conversely, to have 35,000 you'd have to have 5,000 served by advanced orgs in both LA and Clearwater, and then an average of 160 at each of the local orgs, which seems way high by any observable measure of any of those locations. i've been looking at the mission network and it appears so badly decimated that it can't count for much at all.

if there are 35 thousand, what orgs are they at? and if it's realistically more like 10-17 thousand, does that membership really support 6 thousand sea org, or less than a 3:1 ratio?
A lot of it is guess work because Scientology will never release numbers. If I were making guesses I'd say around 10K staff and S.O. members and around 15K public. I'd guess about 100 public per org on average, including LA/Flag. Remember, most people doing services at those orgs aren't local to the area. Their local fields are growing but Flag doesn't service anywhere close to 5K local Scientologists and neither does LA. So total 25K and a 1.5:1 ratio of public to staff/S.O. Never underestimate how inefficient Scientology is, 1.5:1 or 2:1 sounds about right to me, no way could they handle public if it were 3:1.

Of course my estimates could be off, it could be closer to 3.5K S.O. members left and down to under 20K Scientologists.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I'd guess about 100 public per org on average, including LA/Flag.
i had detailed insider info on an org in a good sized US city that from all i can tell was pretty average, and close to a decade ago they would get 100 to 120 people for a couple of annual events that attracted their whole 'field' including from nearby mission/s, but only about half that were really active at the org. staff was around 25 to 30 on the board, though i'm not sure how many of those might have been part timers or volunteers. and since they i think numbers are down around a third. so maybe 100 per org they can claim as members but about only half of that really active, which i think puts total membership under 20K.

years back, didn't they only make enough e-meters for 15k members? (thought that might cover some couples). and their private Facebook group is under 20k, and i suspect that includes some some people who have moved on or passed on and just haven't been dropped.

and as i added to my initial post, i don't think they can have more than about 3,000 staff left:

ETA: i want to start lead this by saying that i think 6601 may be more like sea org and what's left of local org staff. sort of like the number of 16,000 staff they claimed recently, is probably local org staff plus even marginally active members all counted as FSMs. (and as a reality-check that they have to be padding their claims in some way like that, 16,000 would be about 100 per local org, and obviously that's not happening, at say 12-25 per local org it's more like 2,500-3,000 staff worldwide)
i'd love to hear from someone who has more concrete or recent information, it seems kind of odd that we don't know more but the people coming out now don't seem to have a lot of specifics....
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
~ more like 10-17 thousand ~
~ enough e-meters for 15k members ~
I'm good with those numbers and that's what I've been quoting, when asked.

blownforgood on Tony's at The Villiage Voice in 2011
Anyway, Headley writes that some years ago, a new line of e-meters was about to be released, and Miscavige told him that he wanted enough of them manufactured so that every Scientologist in the world could buy two of the devices. (Headley explained that members are supposed to have a backup machine, just in case.)​
And in order to have that many on hand, Miscavige asked Headley to make sure 30,000 of them were made.​
I told Headley that his story implied that Miscavige himself knew there were only about 15,000 Scientologists around the world with the money or desire to pay for the machines.​
“The actual number is more like 10,000,” he told me.​
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
i had detailed insider info on an org in a good sized US city that from all i can tell was pretty average, and close to a decade ago they would get 100 to 120 people for a couple of annual events that attracted their whole 'field' including from nearby mission/s, but only about half that were really active at the org. staff was around 25 to 30 on the board, though i'm not sure how many of those might have been part timers or volunteers. and since they i think numbers are down around a third. so maybe 100 per org they can claim as members but about only half of that really active, which i think puts total membership under 20K.

years back, didn't they only make enough e-meters for 15k members? (thought that might cover some couples). and their private Facebook group is under 20k, and i suspect that includes some some people who have moved on or passed on and just haven't been dropped.

and as i added to my initial post, i don't think they can have more than about 3,000 staff left:



i'd love to hear from someone who has more concrete or recent information, it seems kind of odd that we don't know more but the people coming out now don't seem to have a lot of specifics....

I've got some 35+ old year information. :cool:

Back around 1985 or 86 I was working in HCO for Boston Foundation Org. I got into Ethics trouble and was temporarily removed from post. At around the same time the Ethics Officer for Boston Day org also got into ethics trouble and was removed from post as well. Hubbard's birthday was coming up very soon and the CLO (the management org in New York) got the bright idea of sending the both of us to the org in DC, putting us in charge of all the preparations for the annual birthday event. We were responsible for everything event-related, the biggest thing was getting the staff there at FCDC org to do call-in, making sure their public people came to the event. It felt more than a little ironic for me to be making sure their staff did call-in for that event because in the past I always resisted doing this myself when at Boston org - I hated it. But we ended getting over 500 people to come to the event. It was the highest amount ever gotten for the Birthday event at that org, at least up until that year.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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--snipped--
i'd love to hear from someone who has more concrete or recent information, it seems kind of odd that we don't know more but the people coming out now don't seem to have a lot of specifics....
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The 8th wonder of the world--Compartmentalization!

The funny part is that the "knowing how to know" people are always the last to know. People working full time as professional Scientologists inside orgs or various management bureaus know exponentially less about Scientology than non-Scientologists.

Inside the cult "everything is confidential". It's pervasive paranoia--but such behavior is perceived (by Scientologists) as an extraordinarily pure level of "ethics" and "morality" and planet-saving "integrity".

Let's put it this way. One week Wanda Wog could be a high school cheerleader, full of smiles and pep and giggles. But bubbly Wanda might get recruited into Scientology staff and 3 weeks later she could very easily be working in the org's "ethics department" and calling people on the phone to order them to report for an ethics action. When the perplexed public individual asks: "Hey what's this all about? Does this have something to do with me making a police report that the Senior Case Supervisor illegally took some cash advances from my charge cards in order to pay his personal rent?" Wanda would immediately reply: "Stop! We should not be discussing this on phone lines..."

Wanda does not know why it cannot be discussed on phone lines because there is nothing written in "sacred scripture" about the belief that the police, FBI, CIA and Interpol are tapping the org's telephones and that Scientology's crimes must be hidden from them.

If Wanda later blew from staff she would not know anything about the fraudulent credit card scam by the org's top tech terminal who was responsible for ensuring every preclears ethics was in so that the tech worked. The reason she would not know anything about it is that the ethics officer handling that cycle would r-factor her that she had received "false data, entheta and black PR" about the Senior Case Supervisor and she would be told she is forbidden from talking to that public person about it or communicating anything at all about that "out pr cycle" to other Scientologists....ever. Then she would sign a $100,000 bond and agree to pay the org $100,000 for every person she ever leaked that "enemy line" to ever again for eternity.

SUMMARY: Scientologists are clueless in general. They pride themselves on being clueless. They get wins from being clueless. Ignorance is bliss. Why worry when the advanced OT gurus uplines have got this?

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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I'm good with those numbers and that's what I've been quoting, when asked.

blownforgood on Tony's at The Villiage Voice in 2011
Anyway, Headley writes that some years ago, a new line of e-meters was about to be released, and Miscavige told him that he wanted enough of them manufactured so that every Scientologist in the world could buy two of the devices. (Headley explained that members are supposed to have a backup machine, just in case.)​
And in order to have that many on hand, Miscavige asked Headley to make sure 30,000 of them were made.​
I told Headley that his story implied that Miscavige himself knew there were only about 15,000 Scientologists around the world with the money or desire to pay for the machines.​
“The actual number is more like 10,000,” he told me.​
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Outstanding.

That's the simple answer. Around 10K - 12K "resistive cases" who are still hoping that the next level will unlock all the mysteries of the universe and give them the magical powers they so rightly deserve.

Those 10K-range numbers are what appears on my Scn Schadenfreude Whiteboard Countdown. LOL.

The cult's stats, tone levels and memberships have fallen and they can't get up.

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onceuponatime

Well-known member
i had detailed insider info on an org in a good sized US city that from all i can tell was pretty average, and close to a decade ago they would get 100 to 120 people for a couple of annual events that attracted their whole 'field' including from nearby mission/s, but only about half that were really active at the org. staff was around 25 to 30 on the board, though i'm not sure how many of those might have been part timers or volunteers. and since they i think numbers are down around a third. so maybe 100 per org they can claim as members but about only half of that really active, which i think puts total membership under 20K.

years back, didn't they only make enough e-meters for 15k members? (thought that might cover some couples). and their private Facebook group is under 20k, and i suspect that includes some some people who have moved on or passed on and just haven't been dropped.

and as i added to my initial post, i don't think they can have more than about 3,000 staff left:



i'd love to hear from someone who has more concrete or recent information, it seems kind of odd that we don't know more but the people coming out now don't seem to have a lot of specifics....
I should clarify that when I'm giving numbers I'm talking about total number of people that they could round up if their life depended on it. Real/active numbers I'd expect to be about half of what I posted. My numbers included people who are more or less gone but maybe show up for an event or two every year.

The more I think about it the more I wonder if it's 1:1 as far as staff/S.O. and public. We might have already passed the point where there are more public than staff.

I do think the numbers as far as S.O. are pretty accurate, Flag alone has something around 2K staff. Class V staff is hard to get a read on. Some orgs have a 100+ others have under 10 and all ranges in between.

Even if you estimate on the high side it isn't good for scientology. They are approaching numbers where orgs and missions have to start closing, in some cases that's already happening.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Back around 1985 or 86 I was working in HCO for Boston Foundation Org. I got into Ethics trouble and was temporarily removed from post. At around the same time the Ethics Officer for Boston Day org also got into ethics trouble and was removed from post as well. Hubbard's birthday was coming up very soon and the CLO (the management org in New York) got the bright idea of sending the both of us to the org in DC, putting us in charge of all the preparations for the annual birthday event. We were responsible for everything event-related, the biggest thing getting the staff there at FCDC org to do call-in, making sure their public people came to the event. It felt more than a little ironic for me to be making sure their staff did call-in for that event because in the past I always resisted doing this myself when at Boston org - I hated it. But we ended getting over 500 people to come to the event. It was the highest amount ever gotten for the Birthday event at that org, at least up until that year.
thanks for that anecdote, it gets back to the period i wish i understood better in the mid to late '80s, and into the early '90s. it sounds like at least in DC, they were still pretty big even after the 'mission massacre', though they draw from a large multi-state metro area and there's no other org for hundreds of miles to the South or West (but there were once missions in Maryland, Virginia and the Carolinas).

didn't they also have some huge gatherings around the time of the 'Portland Crusade'?

obviously things are very different now.

i've visited what's left of the Boston org, stuck for maybe going on a decade now in a 'temporary' location on the upper story of a medium sized commercial/office building inconveniently far South of the city itself. it doesn't look like there's much left of it, i almost never see promo pieces from them and i can't find that they have any social media presence -- which seemed to have been made virtually mandatory a couple of years back. i may have run across a reference that 5 or 10 years ago they maybe got 100 people to an event, which would about fit.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I should clarify that when I'm giving numbers I'm talking about total number of people that they could round up if their life depended on it. Real/active numbers I'd expect to be about half of what I posted. My numbers included people who are more or less gone but maybe show up for an event or two every year.
okay, that's good to clarify, i tend to focus more on what seem to be the real active members, than what they could draw for an 'all hands' type event a couple of times a year. at least at the org i got to kind of know, it seemed like the rarely seen half was a lot of what i call hangers-on, people who had been somewhat active long ago and especially when it was a bit cheaper to do, who liked to show up and see old friends but probably wouldn't do much more than maybe a correspondence course -- though i think we see a few of those old timers now going 'clear' after getting an inheritance or something.

most orgs seem to be around 12-18 staff now, i really doubt many other than Tampa and maybe San Francisco have more than that.

and i'm working on a count of the missions that i'll post more about when i'm further along, but it looks like about 2/3 of them have closed in the last decade. i think often it's just because the old mission holders are getting ready to retire, which was sort of the case with old Clearwater mission (which i watched shut down when i lived there), and can no longer carry what is probably now actually a financial drain. the scientology locator lists just over 30 of them, and i know that at least one has actually been closed since before even the pandemic; only a handful still have a real public-facing location and a lot of the rest are probably little more than mail drops.

i doubt they'll actually close an org while DMis alive, but going back at least 5 years it seemed some were already running at a net loss and needing bailouts from int management to keep the doors open, and that trend can only increase.
 
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