Hubbard had no real friends

Veda

Well-known member
I thought this was common knowledge. Old man Northrup was an abusive parent. This is mentioned in probably every single publication I ever read about Parsons and Hubbard. Its also mentioned online:

Quote:
"Northrup’s life was already filled with sexual abuse. She’d been molested by her father from a young age, a trauma that likely explains why she was already sleeping with Jack Parsons by age 13. "
Source: 10 Tragic Facts About Sara Northrup, L. Ron Hubbard's Wife - Listverse

Quote:
Olga (Sara's mother) had remarried to a man named Burton Northrup. Though her three daughters from her first marriage had taken Northrup’s name their marriage had been far from happy. He was reportedly abusive towards the girls, including his own two daughters with Olga, and was imprisoned for financial fraud in 1928.
Source: https://headstuff.org/culture/history/jack-parsons-occult-rocketman/

Now from a book "Strange Angel: The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons". Fair use quote:



Hubbard lied. Not least because "Komkovadamanov" isn't even a valid Russian surname. It might sound Russian to someone not familiar with the language, but it is not. Trust me, I'm a Russian speaker.

My best bet is that Hubbard assumed that the feds back in the day couldn't care less about an abusive parent, but they would be interested in a Russian communist spy. So he did what he would usually do: he tried to lie to them and make up fantastic tales of spies and intrigue.


They were also survivors of parental sexual abuse. Women who went through sexual abuse once frequently end up with partners who also abuse or take advantage of them.
So the fact that Sara ended up with Jack and then Hubbard isn't surprising. Jack took advantage of her and user her for sex (just like he did before with her sister), Hubbard did the same and also allegedly was physically violent with her.

I'm not saying Hubbard was a decent, kind and gentle man. But neither was Crowley or Parsons. The OTO was a destructive group where the leaders used their followers for sex and money, through "mystical manipulation". Common cult tactic.
"Common knowledge" does not necessarily means it's true. It may very well be true, but be careful of dramatized or tabloid sensationalism. The story is already pretty wild without embellishment.

I haven't read Strange Angel. Does this come from Strange Angel? which was originally a book, but also became a television drama series.

After 1951, as far as I know, Sara only gave one interview and that was during 1986 for the book Messiah or Madman? She then, when she was ill towards the end of her life, around 1996, made some cassette tapes recounting her experiences. Her daughter contacted me in 1997 for advice on where these cassettes could be forwarded for safe keeping. I've not listened to the tapes, but I see that segments of them have been used. Does Strange Angel quote from them?

I'm unclear as to the original sources of the information. Some of it would likely derive from court or other public records, which a researcher might uncover. The rest sounds as though it might be recounting or testimony. But from whom?

Was it from Sara?

As for "Komkovadamanov," that's already being cited as true by at least one non Scientology "source," and is on its way to becoming an Hubbardian "factual fact," by reason of being "agreed upon" by enough people.

A similar thing happened to Hubbard's hoax Russian Manual which was picked up by right wing and evangelical pundits and groups during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, who absolutely believe it's authentic.

That Sara and her sisters were abused is entirely plausible, and does make sense.

That, however, doesn't make Jack Parsons an "enforcer," or Hubbard a cult victim.

:)
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
Where are you getting this?

SNIPPED a lot ....

______________Begin quote______________​


In ads placed in the local paper Jack specified that only bohemians, artists, musicians, atheists, anarchists, and other exotic types need apply for rooms - any mundane soul would be unceremoniously rejected. The ad, needless to say, caused quite a flap in Pasadena when it appeared...

Betty, [Elizabeth was Sara's middle name] who had been living with Jack for a number of years, complemented him admirably. She was young, blonde, very attractive, full of joie de vivre, thoughtful, humorous, generous... However this tranquil relationship was soon to be exposed to pressures, from a most surprising source, that would lead to its disintegration.

It all began on an otherwise undistinguished day in the late fall of '45 when we got word that L. Ron Hubbard was planning to wait his terminal leave from the Navy at 'The Parsonage'... Ron arrived on a Sunday, driving an old reddish Packard and hauling a house trailer...

I liked Ron from the first. He was of medium build, red headed, wore horned rim glasses, and had a tremendously engaging personalty. For several weeks he dominated the scene with his wit and his inexhaustible fund of anecdotes... Unfortunately, Ron's reputation for spinning tall tales (both off and on the printed page) made for a certain degree of skepticism in the minds of his audience. At any rate, he told one hell of a good story...

Ron was a persuasive and unscrupulous charmer... He was so persuasive and charmingly unscrupulous that within a matter of a few weeks he brought the entire house of Parsons down around poor Jack's ears...

___________End of quote_________


Sara's granddaughter and great granddaughter

SNIPPED
Sara above states that Hubbard was wearing "horned rimmed glasses."
Certainly not up to the importance of what is being discussed here.....but it just struck me...
Did Hubbard have to wear glasses....and he never let himself be photographed wearing them?

Or I guess they could have been sunglasses...

Just kinda struck me.

Sorry for the derail.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
"Common knowledge" does not necessarily means it's true. It may very well be true, but be careful of dramatized or tabloid sensationalism. The story is already pretty wild without embellishment.
Yeah of course, we need to be wary of claims that make the story more 'dramatic' or 'relatable', because these might be introduced by the authors for shock-value or sensationalism.

But again, the eye-witnesses are dead now so we just get books and second-hand accounts as evidence.
I tend to believe the claims of sexual abuse of the Northrup sisters because of several reasons:
  • The claims appear independently in publications about Hubbard&Scientology (that don't have a lot of interest in OTO itself) and they also appear in publications focused solely on Parsons and the OTO (where they treat Hubbard is just a minor part of the story). So in short: the ex-scn and the ex-OTO publications both mention this.
  • This does not involve only Sara, but also her older sister Helen and the younger sisters. So its not just the older girls having a disagreement/fight/conflict with their stepfather. He did it both to the older daughters of Olga she had with Cowley and he also did it to his own daughters he had with Olga.
  • It makes sense looking at it from the bigger picture of Sara's whole life. The fact that she became sexually active at such a young age and that she went into this series of relationships with manipulative and abusive partners - that is sadly a common pattern for victims of sexual abuse. The story adds up from a psychological viewpoint.
I haven't read Strange Angel. Does this come from Strange Angel? which was originally a book, but also became a television drama series.
The three quotes I made in my previous post come from 3 separate sources (I've posted links). The last one (the image) was from "Strange Angel" the book. This one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3M3TD4/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0

I'm unclear as to the original sources of the information. Some of it would likely derive from court or other public records, which a researcher might uncover.
I think it comes from Helen.

As for "Komkovadamanov," that's already being cited as true by at least one non Scientology "source," and is on its way to becoming an Hubbardian "factual fact," by reason of being "agreed upon" by enough people.
I'd be really surprised if it turned out to be true. Olga was of Swedish descent, her first husband was British, her second was American. I'm not saying it was impossible for her to have a 3rd Russian lover/husband somewhere on the way, but where would he fit on the timeline?

The name "Komkovadamanov" alone seems fictitious. Do you have the original cyrillic spelling of the name? Using the most straightforward transliteration we would end up with "комковадаманов", which if you put it in google ends up with just one single search result (a wikipedia entry about Hubbard and Sara Northrup).

If this was a real Russian surname, you would certainly find other pages and mentions of other people who still have the same surname (for example on ВКонтакте - the Russian equivalent to facebook). But there's none.

So let me sum up the evidence against this being a real surname of Sara:
  • It instantly sounds like a fake surname to Russian speakers.
  • There are no Russians, neither past or present that have this surname. Google search is unable to find a single Russian person with that surname online.
  • The russian language has a different suffix for male and female users of a surname (adding an "a", "ova" on the end or "vna" for daughters). So for example a male колоколов becomes a female колоколовна or колоколова Even if it was a real surname, the female one would be Komkovadamanova. The fact that Hubbard doesn't even use the correct female surname suffix makes it even more likely that he just made the surname up.
  • The beginning of the surname "Kom-" is also incredibly suspicious. Words that begin with "kom" in Russian are foreign loan-words such as "communism", "commander", committee", "computer" etc. The "kom" syllable doesn't make sense in a surname really, as surnames are almost always old and created out of native words or old greek/religious ones.
  • While it is not entirely impossible that Olga had 3 husbands/lovers in that time span, it does sound unusual and suspicious.
That, however, doesn't make Jack Parsons an "enforcer," or Hubbard a cult victim.
Well, that does mean that in the case of the Northrup sisters, Parsons went for vulnerable young women with an "emotional baggage" of abuse. He then used mystical manipulation to make them cult members and use them sexually, while having them recognize him as the local cult leader.

In Hubbard's case, Parsons went for a man whose marriage just fell apart, the navy dumped him, and who couldn't find a job or a place to stay. Again, Parsons went after someone in a vulnerable and difficult time in his life, then used mystical manipulation to recruit Hubbard as a cult member and have him recognize Parsons as the local cult leader.

I see a pattern here. Parsons is going for vulnerable people who he feels can be manipulated and exploited. The whole ad for "bohemians" is just Parsons looking for social outcasts with "ruins" who will make good cult recruits. Cult 101.
I can't see Parsons as anyone other than a local-cult guru wannabe who is trying to gain more cult members and who uses his female followers for sex.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
Yeah of course, we need to be wary of claims that make the story more 'dramatic' or 'relatable', because these might be introduced by the authors for shock-value or sensationalism.

But again, the eye-witnesses are dead now so we just get books and second-hand accounts as evidence.
I tend to believe the claims of sexual abuse of the Northrup sisters because of several reasons:
  • The claims appear independently in publications about Hubbard&Scientology (that don't have a lot of interest in OTO itself) and they also appear in publications focused solely on Parsons and the OTO (where they treat Hubbard is just a minor part of the story). So in short: the ex-scn and the ex-OTO publications both mention this.
  • This does not involve only Sara, but also her older sister Helen and the younger sisters. So its not just the older girls having a disagreement/fight/conflict with their stepfather. He did it both to the older daughters of Olga she had with Cowley and he also did it to his own daughters he had with Olga.
  • It makes sense looking at it from the bigger picture of Sara's whole life. The fact that she became sexually active at such a young age and that she went into this series of relationships with manipulative and abusive partners - that is sadly a common pattern for victims of sexual abuse. The story adds up from a psychological viewpoint.

The three quotes I made in my previous post come from 3 separate sources (I've posted links). The last one (the image) was from "Strange Angel" the book. This one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3M3TD4/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0


I think it comes from Helen.
As I stated earlier, I don't have a problem with the idea of Sara's stepfather having been abusive.


I'd be really surprised if it [Hubbard's Komkovadananov allegation] turned out to be true.

....
Oh it isn't true. I fact, it's ridiculous. Yet, some non-Scientologist, or perhaps a Scientologist posing as a non-Scientologist, is out there, stating it is true. There are also Independent Scientologists and also corrupt "scholars" who are only too happy to vouch for any absurdity from Hubbard and, with mental gymnastics, make it seem perfectly sensible.

That's why I appreciate your presenting the lineage of Sara parents.

From an earlier post by you:


Now from a book "Strange Angel: The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons". Fair use quote:




Our point of disagreement is, firstly, in the depiction of Jack Parsons as an "enforcer."

While I didn't have direct contact with Sara, I came as close to it as possible - long story - and it was obvious that she had enjoyed her time with Parsons, and liked him, and not in an abused woman sort of way. I also spoke, on several occasions, with Sara's daughter, while Sara was still alive. That gives me a little different perspective.

Our other point of disagreement is the idea that Hubbard was a cult victim.

On those two points we're never going to agree, so, as you say, we'll have to agree to disagree.

:scratch:


Thanks for making this a productive thread.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
Oh it isn't true. I fact, it's ridiculous. Yet, some non-Scientologist, or perhaps a Scientologist posing as a non-Scientologist, is out there, stating it is true.
I know what you meant and that we stand in agreement.

But I looked back at my previous post #20 and I didn't want to leave it as some sort of unsubstantiated ab auctoritate claim of: "Karakorum claims the surname is fake just because he speaks Russian".

So I wanted to share the actual linguistic details explaining why that surname doesn't make sense for several reasons.

Our point of disagreement is, firstly, in the depiction of Jack Parsons as an "enforcer."

While I didn't have direct contact with Sara, I came as close to it as possible - long story - and it was obvious that she had enjoyed her time with Parsons, and liked him, and not in an abused woman sort of way. I also spoke, on several occasions, with Sara's daughter, while Sara was still alive. That gives me a little different perspective.
Well, I didn't have contact with them. But I can look at the facts and I see that:
  • Jack took in two young sexual abuse victims.
  • Made them members of a cult where he was the leader and spiritual authority.
  • Had them participate in sex magick rituals.
  • Started sleeping with the older sister outside of rituals.
  • Not satisfied, he also started sleeping with the younger one.
I see a pattern here. More Koresh than Miscavige, but still pretty cult-leader like. Guy takes his authority from the guru in London, then repeats the same OTO patter of preying on vulnerable people for support and sex. Crowley also did it for money, Jack had enough of that due to his scientific work. But he still used young women for sex manipulating them with his authority and magick rites.

Maybe Jack's motives with the Northrup sisters didn't initially start as just manipulative sex-seeking. But that's what it boiled down to in the end.

Our other point of disagreement is the idea that Hubbard was a cult victim.
And I think there's room for two intelligent people to disagree on this point, without either denying the facts. We just interpret things differently.

My way of thinking is that the OTO was a destructive group, particularly when it comes to New Age make-believe-powers and sex. Hubbard gets in, then he leaves and writes the admissions, which feel like they are written by a very confused, dazed indoctrinated man trying to find a way out while still clinging to many of the philosophical tenets of his former group.

The only reason why I am willing to see Hubbard as a confused ex-cultie, is because to me he comes off that way in the admissions.
 
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