Hubbard did something important

Veda

Well-known member
Whether it be a small number of small mom and pop auditing centers, the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains, Ron's Orgs (by far the largest group), or the Dror Center, Hubbard worship is alive and well.

Take this recent example from the Director of the Dror Center.

Out for eight years, and this is where he is.

Referring to the Organization:

"They managed to give Ron Hubbard a bad name, so Ron Hubbard who you and I admire, and hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived, and created, and gave so much to us and all Mankind; his name has become a bad name. He's been vilified by the Church of Scientology, because of the terrible things that they do and they attribute to Ron Hubbard, like Declaring people Suppressive, Disconnection policy, and more..."

Contrast this with a rational examination of Hubbard teachings:


Fritz Perls, of the Esalen Institute and founder of Gestalt Therapy.


Dr. Winter wrote the Introduction to Diantetics, the MSMH in 1950.

Within a year he had moved beyond Hubbard, and wrote, A Doctors Report on Dianetics.

Famous psychotherapist Fritz Perls, wrote the Introduction for Winter's book.

Perls wrote:

"The present book is not for anyone who has a fixation, a complete identification with any of the present day schools. Such a person with a fixation will experience anything strange as wrong... Hubbard with his mixture of science and fiction, his bombastic way... his unsubstantiated claims, makes it easy for anyone to reject his work in toto, thus missing any chance to extract any valuable contributions it might contain."

Of course, Hubbard denounced Dr. Writer and his unauthorized book.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Deeply flawed, with a self serving hidden agenda, he made contributions.
The problem is, none of his contributions were significant. I agree with the statement:

What is good in Scientology is not original
and what is original in Scientology is not good.

Although, I'd say what is original in Scientology has not been significant. A lot of Scientology has been false assumptions, false claims and misdirection. Much of Hubbard's "tech" has distracted from workable solutions instead of toward workable solutions.

If Scientology had never existed, nothing of importance would be lost. Anything good and of significance came from others.

If something from Scientology ever becomes significant, that would be a good contribution -- but it would come from someone else -- maybe inspired by Hubbard. That hasn't happened yet.

Unfortunately, much of Hubbard's "contributions" have been distractions and misdirections because of his lies and bogus claims. Add to that the true evil committed by him and his organizations, it's hard to say there was any net gain for society.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
The purpose of this thread is to contrast (personality) cult-type views of Hubbard and his teachings with other views - views that are from others who are not part of the Hubbard (personality) cult, that are not completely negative. I find it to be an interesting contrast.

Fritz Perls "...Hubbard with his mixture of science and fiction, his bombastic way... his unsubstantiated claims, makes it easy for anyone to reject his work in toto, thus missing any chance to extract any valuable contributions it might contain."

Contrasted with:

Dani Lemberger of the Dror Center: "...Ron Hubbard... I... hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived..."

*

Another example is Aldous Huxley's account of auditing, from Hubbard, of himself and his wife, Maria, on Dianetics in 1950:

"Up to the present I have proved to be competency resistant - there is no way of getting me onto the time track or of making the subconscious produce engrams... Maria, meanwhile, has had some success contacting and working off engrams and has been repeatedly into what the subconscious says is the prenatal state. Whether because of Dianetics or for some reason, she is well and very free from tension."

Other non Hubbard cultists, who have experimented with Scientology, range from author William Burroughs to song writer and singer Van Morrison.

Burroughs rejected what he regarded as Hubbard's fascistic tendencies, his science fiction, his ego-tripping, and Scientology's religious cloaking, but did regard parts of the subject as having some merit. He even suggested setting up a center "where all... techniques can be pooled... and to challenge anyone who claims to have knowledge of inner space to come out and share what you have. Let's explore inner space. Your inner space belongs to you. It is time to demand what is yours."

*
From Van Morrison's Inarticulate Speech of the Heart album of 1983:


Background: During the early 1980s Van Morrison was briefly "on lines," and received "Life Repair" auditing.
Was he shown a copy of the Celebrity Center magazine that featured a poem by John Donne prominently on its first page? In any event, Morrison apparently liked the auditing, but did not become further involved.


*
The idea is examine many different perspectives.

For example, there's an interesting discussion of the nature of "Dear Alice" in Scientology, and Alice in Wonderland, etc. that can be found in the archived orignal ESMB.

Hubbard, during a lecture in late 1952, recommended a book called The Master Therion, later re-titled Magick in Theory and Practice. This book, in turn, has a recommended reading list, and on that list is Alice, Through the Looking Glass, which is described, by Magick's author, Aleister Crowley, as "valuable to those who understand the Qabalah."




Lots that is strange intersects with Hubbard and Scientology.





 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Dani Lemberger of the Dror Center: "...Ron Hubbard... I... hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived..."
.
.
I believe that Dani's statement is a revelation!

It reveals that Scientologists are, in fact, not useful idiots.

They are actually useless idiots.

:hattip:

.
 
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Karakorum

Well-known member
Whether it be a small number of small mom and pop auditing centers, the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains, Ron's Orgs (by far the largest group), or the Dror Center, Hubbard worship is alive and well.
'Alive'? Yes.

'And well'? The jury is still out on that one.


But I can agree, whatever may be wrong in the indie world, it is all sunshine, rainbows and fluffy cuddly plush kittens in comparison to what is going on at Davey's place.

Fluffy, cuddly plush kittens indeed.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Or shrewd businessmen, who realize that potential clients want a "Bridge" from those that [appear to) idolize Hubbard.
.

Well, I have to believe that Dani is a believer, because. . .

1. After all, he called L. Ron Hubbard "the greatest genius who ever lived!"
2. He also called him "the greatest man who ever lived!"

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Dani's unbridled enthusiasm for the "modern science of mental health" was so extraordinary that he not only erased his reactive mind—but then wildly overran and additionally erased his mental health as well.

When I read those 2 breathlessly hyperbolic quotes (above) I paused for several moments, fully expecting Rod Serling to step out from the shadows with a very concerned look on his face.





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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Perhaps Dani is right and L. Ron Hubbard, in fact, really is:

"The greatest man that ever lived!"
How would Dani know this?

ANSWER: Because, the "greatest man that ever lived" pathologically lies to you, relentlessly defrauds you and fanatically steals all of your money and your time.

Don't worry if this sounds slightly outpointy, because a Scientologist can clay demo it for you.


.
 

Veda

Well-known member
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Well, I have to believe that Dani is a believer, because. . .

1. After all, he called L. Ron Hubbard "the greatest genius who ever lived!"
2. He also called him "the greatest man who ever lived!"

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Dani's unbridled enthusiasm for the "modern science of mental health" was so extraordinary that he not only erased his reactive mind—but then wildly overran and additionally erased his mental health as well.

When I read those 2 breathlessly hyperbolic quotes (above) I paused for several moments, fully expecting Rod Serling to step out from the shadows with a very concerned look on his face.



.
Added comments in red

Referring to the Organization:

"They managed to give Ron Hubbard a bad name, so Ron Hubbard who you and I admire, and hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived,


and created, and gave so much to us and all Mankind;
[Which Dani and Dror Center are now selling to others]


his name has become a bad name. [Which is very bad for business]


He's been vilified by the Church of Scientology, because of the terrible things that they do [We're supposed to think that Hubbard didn't do these terrible things first]

and they attribute to Ron Hubbard, like Declaring people Suppressive, Disconnection policy, and more..." [We're supposed to think that Hubbard didn't Declare people Suppressive, and that Disconnection was actually discontinued]

Dani has been out of Scientology Inc. for eight years and, apparently, has managed to "safe point" himself with Tony Ortega, and others, and we're supposed to believe he's utterly clueless on the topic of Hubbard?

Don't buy it. This appears to be a cynical business decision.

And perhaps he feels that he needs to keep the illusion going to give his life meaning.

But he must know, and his wife also knows - on some level.


Which would mean they are both willfully lying.

And how about this guy? Does he really believe this?



There are sincere people in the "Independent Scientology" field, but the long term SELLERS of BRIDGES must know better.

Years ago, at least there were some people who tried to be honest. Those people are mostly gone now.
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Once you've invested your whole life into Scientology it's very hard to take a step back and go, wow this is all bullshit. Some people lack the critical thinking necessary to step back, objectively look at things, and decide based on that. They're too caught up in it (and all the time and money they've invested in it) and never even allow themselves to question, is this all a scam?
 

Veda

Well-known member
Once you've invested your whole life into Scientology it's very hard to take a step back and go, wow this is all bullshit. Some people lack the critical thinking necessary to step back, objectively look at things, and decide based on that. They're too caught up in it (and all the time and money they've invested in it) and never even allow themselves to question, is this all a scam?
It doesn't have to be "all bullshit."

But the person could stop selling a "Bridge" to "OT" that he knows does not exist.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Yeah, but how much money can you make selling "You might feel very good for a while!"?
Right now they're selling "If you get NOTs, or at least the OT Drug RD (New OT 4), you won't be re-implanted while between lives."

"The implanters won't mess with you if you get enough processing."

I can remember when L. Ron Hubbard Jr. took a lot of heat for saying that all Scientology did was produce states of mind, rather than something tangible. This was around 1970. At the time, Scientologists believed that there were eight OT levels, of which seven had been released, with one - OT 8 - remaining unreleased.

OT 8 was total power, total cause over "MEST," exterior with perception, lightening bolt-throwing Zeus.

They have an OT making machine that doesn't make OTs, but they can't put the machine away, or even honestly admit that there's something wrong with the machine. No, the machine is wonderful.

To regard with 100 percent certainty that each process and each level was super terrific is baked in.

To not feel that way is sign that that something is horribly wrong with the person.

But the people who, long duration, sell this, must know.
 

The_Fixer

Well-known member
No, Hubbard does not get a pass from me.

We can bandy around with all the side thinking, but at the end of the day, the man was nothing but a total arsehole.

Period.
 

Pepin

New member
Right now they're selling "If you get NOTs, or at least the OT Drug RD (New OT 4), you won't be re-implanted while between lives."

"The implanters won't mess with you if you get enough processing."

I can remember when L. Ron Hubbard Jr. took a lot of heat for saying that all Scientology did was produce states of mind, rather than something tangible. This was around 1970. At the time, Scientologists believed that there were eight OT levels, of which seven had been released, with one - OT 8 - remaining unreleased.

OT 8 was total power, total cause over "MEST," exterior with perception, lightening bolt-throwing Zeus.

They have an OT making machine that doesn't make OTs, but they can't put the machine away, or even honestly admit that there's something wrong with the machine. No, the machine is wonderful.

To regard with 100 percent certainty that each process and each level was super terrific is baked in.

To not feel that way is sign that that something is horribly wrong with the person.

But the people who, long duration, sell this, must know.
In my experience, OT V is exterior with perception. The cause over MEST was walking into the bathroom while exterior. OT VII for me is seeing the energy flowing out of me into infinity and infinity responding to organize particles into a moment of life.

nobody needs to purchase a bridge or OT from anyone. We are all OT with different levels of awareness. We get to create ourselves as unaware beings, and we're good at it. Even with the full knowledge of being OT Vii, seeing the energy, I practice my masters in limitations. I'm good at it.
 
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