How to Convince Scientologists to Leave

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
How to Convince Scientologists to Leave
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Cool video and perspectives on "getting someone out of Scientology"!

There may be other ways to jail-break a devotee of the "total freedom" cult. One that comes to mind is to invite the Scientologist to use a tiny bit of that total freedom to look at the internet.

There is a very good reason that the cult moves hell and high water to prevent Scientologists from using any of their total freedom to discover the truth about Scientology.

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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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Imagine that you are a Scientologist.

Now imagine that one morning you finally "make it" and attest to "TOTAL FREEDOM".

Now imagine in the afternoon of the same day you opened your computer and clicked the search button for "Scientology". And you read a few of the search results.

Now imagine in the evening of that same day, you are ordered to the "Ethics Department" because you committed Suppressive Acts by using a nano portion of your "total freedom" to look at the internet—just like 4.66 billion active internet users do around the world every single day.

Now imagine that you are ordered to never look at Scientology on the internet again, and forced to sign a contract that forbids you from looking or knowing what is on the internet.

Now imagine you question why you cannot use a tiny portion of your "total freedom" to read things on the internet, and you are told because it is a "SUPPRESSIVE ACT" and a "HIGH CRIME" and that if you dare do that you will be DECLARED SP.

Now imagine that the person signing such an agreement is the same person who dedicated and devoted their entire life to attaining "total freedom" even though they are not allowed to use any of that freedom.

This stuff is kind of unimaginable, isn't it? LOL

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Riddick

I clap to no man
How to Convince Scientologists to Leave
Here's what's kind of funny, at about the 2:31 mark Aaron talks about the confidential clear cognition. Now wait a minute, I thought any two people could clear themselves using Dianetics, how come it becomes "confidential" and when did it?

Maybe Jefferson Hawkins can answer since he created the Dianetics promotions back in the 1970/80's or maybe his brother Just Bill?

The rest of the video Aaron exactly explains the rhetoric.

I think it's a great video.

Aaron saying it's a mystery, the unknown is very true. While Aaron was studiying the Tech side, the PR and Marketing people were creating the mystery sandwich.
 
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programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
I still wonder about the similarities and differences in the experiences of ex-Scientologists as to why they left and how long it took them to go down that path. IMO, for most people, it was not a quick thing.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Here's what's kind of funny, at about the 2:31 mark Aaron talks about the confidential clear cognition. Now wait a minute, I thought any two people could clear themselves using Dianetics, how come it becomes "confidential" and when did it? Maybe Jefferson Hawkins can answer since he created the Dianetics promotions back in the 1970/80's or maybe his brother Just Bill?
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That brings up an interesting question. Certainly nothing in DMSMH was "confidential", but I don't recall what the "END PHENOMENA" is in that book. We know it's the state of Clear.

But what does the book define as "Clear" and what is the test?

Interesting. I bet one could survey ALL ORGS & MISSIONS and ask all auditors and staff members and perhaps none of them could answer what the exact CLEAR EP is from book one and how the auditor and PC scientifically verified it.

Remember it's a "modern science" so there should be a scientific test to confirm Clear, right? LOL

I couldn't stand reading that book DMSMH any of the times I tried to read it. So I ain't gonna ruin my day by going into an online version in order to look up when the PC can "attest".


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Veda

Well-known member
A few quickly assembled suggestions:

Planting a seed in the back of person's mind, that might be dormant for years, until the right time.

Telling him that "tech" (under Miscavige) is "out in Orgs." (This will simmer in the back of the person's mind.)

Pointing out an inconsistency in Scientology, while allowing the person to maintain his belief in most of Scientology. (Don't take it all away from him.)

Noting that Scientology was changed by Miscavige. (Hint that this is why there are no real OTs.)

Telling him that the entire Bridge is available outside of Scientology Inc.

Telling him there are no more OT levels. (Tell him there are many other types of self actualization.)

Telling him, that in Scientology, SURVIVE! is used as a gimmick. (And Hubbard even said so.)

Be willing to listen if he tells your his problems with Scientology. Even if he is "handled" later by Scientology, your having listened attentively, without judgement, will stay will him. He may someday seek you out.

Till him, lightheartedly, you'll eventually be free of Scientology. Why wait?

Make sure he knows that there are many alternative paths to spiritual growth and plenty of hope.

Be cheerful.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
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That brings up an interesting question. Certainly nothing in DMSMH was "confidential", but I don't recall what the "END PHENOMENA" is in that book. We know it's the state of Clear.

But what does the book define as "Clear" and what is the test?

Interesting. I bet one could survey ALL ORGS & MISSIONS and ask all auditors and staff members and perhaps none of them could answer what the exact CLEAR EP is from book one and how the auditor and PC scientifically verified it.

Remember it's a "modern science" so there should be a scientific test to confirm Clear, right? LOL

I couldn't stand reading that book DMSMH any of the times I tried to read it. So I ain't gonna ruin my day by going into an online version in order to look up when the PC can "attest".


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here's the original dianetics book, it's in the appendices.

1950-dianetics-the-modern-science-of-mental-health.pdf (wordpress.com)

"The past acts of an individual who has been cleared should be stricken from his record even as his illnesses have been, for with the cause removed there can be no point in retribution unless society itself is so aberrated that it desires to operate on sadistic principles.* There is more than idealism here for it can be shown that aberration in individuals and the society rise in progressive ratio to the amount of punishment employed. "

The appendices of the original dianetics book are very rhetoric, if one cares to read them. They also explain Hubbard's master plan to go forward which something Veda doesn't know about.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
here's the original dianetics book, it's in the appendices.

1950-dianetics-the-modern-science-of-mental-health.pdf (wordpress.com)

"The past acts of an individual who has been cleared should be stricken from his record even as his illnesses have been, for with the cause removed there can be no point in retribution unless society itself is so aberrated that it desires to operate on sadistic principles.* There is more than idealism here for it can be shown that aberration in individuals and the society rise in progressive ratio to the amount of punishment employed. "

The appendices of the original dianetics book are very rhetoric, if one cares to read them. They also explain Hubbard's master plan to go forward which something Veda doesn't know about.
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Thanks, but before i made my previous post (to which you responded), I lightly scanned thru the PDF of DMSMH and could not locate any TEST or set of "modern science" protocols or standards that confirmed whether someone had attained the state of Homo Novis (Clear).

I couldn't find any such thing.

You say it's in the appendices. Did you find it? If so, why don't you just paste it on this thread.

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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
The appendices of the original dianetics book are very rhetoric, if one cares to read them. They also explain Hubbard's master plan to go forward which something Veda doesn't know about.
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Sorry, you'd have to be more specific when making a claim like that. How would you know what Veda doesn't know about? LOL. Isn't that kind of language the attempt at rhetorical persuasion which you so often warn others about?

In fact, during the last 12 years of interacting on this message board, I have never witnessed ANYONE who has a greater understanding of "Hubbard's Master Plan" than Veda, who has taken extraordinary amounts of time and care fo historically reference and memorialize all the proof of such that appears in policies, bulletins, directives, advices, black-op publications and other arcane/hidden documents by both Scientology and governmental investigative agencies.

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Riddick

I clap to no man
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Sorry, you'd have to be more specific when making a claim like that. How would you know what Veda doesn't know about? LOL. Isn't that kind of language the attempt at rhetorical persuasion which you so often warn others about?

In fact, during the last 12 years of interacting on this message board, I have never witnessed ANYONE who has a greater understanding of "Hubbard's Master Plan" than Veda, who has taken extraordinary amounts of time and care fo historically reference and memorialize all the proof of such that appears in policies, bulletins, directives, advices, black-op publications and other arcane/hidden documents by both Scientology and governmental investigative agencies.

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I'm sorry, it's in Chapter 10 of the pdf book. Here's the master plan and by the why, something to consider is the appendices of the original book are longer in any dianetics book presently, the COS deleted them, have to wonder why. I've also posted numerous times my findings on hubbard's rhetoric and yet you all think I'm bullshit. You just don't see how hubbard's rhetoric is in everything he wrote.

Here's the master plan:

"Plan A included the perfection of the science, its testing on patients of all kinds and, finally, the dissemination of dianetics as pertaining to therapy. That plan ends with the release of this book.

Plan B includes a further research into life force, an attempt at resolution of some of the ills not yet embraced such as cancer and diabetes, and the perfection of techniques discovered and their dissemination. That will end Plan B.

Plan C includes an effort to discover a higher echelon of universal origin and destination, if the problem is one of origin and destination, and the factors and forces involved to the end of securing a better understanding and useful application of the knowledge so gained, if gained, and if so gained, its dissemination. A portion of Plan B is the organization of a foundation so that the research can be more swiftly accomplished. The history of dianetics has just begun. What other things begin with the origin of a science of mind only tomorrow can tell."

The master plan is right there in Hubbard's dianetics book. Plan B and C are the scientology OT bullshit. I'm amazed at Hubbard's ability to create ethos, logos and pathos and create a organization and keep it going. I'm also really amazed at DM's ability to suck people out of money to keep the whole thing going, especially celebrities and people who have companys, like dentists, chiro's, internet business, court reporting, etc.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Let's examine Plan A.

"Plan A included the perfection of the science, its testing on patients of all kinds and, finally, the dissemination of dianetics as pertaining to therapy. That plan ends with the release of this book. "

Plan A said perfection of the science, rhetoric.

It was supposed to get you to do dianetics, that would be by the book and do auditing and between 2 people they could become clear.

Plan A said it was testing on all kinds, rhetoric.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
@Riddick

I suggest that you add some study on brain endorphins to your knowledge (especially as could be used to understand Dianetic auditing).

Sticking with a particular AESP in auditing will eventually result in a brain endorphin effect for stress relief (not Hubbard's pseudo-science ).
If the PC gets off into some significance(s) then the auditor is supposed to use TR4 to get the PC back onto the particular AESP.

(No, I am not defending Hubbard nor Dianetics.)
 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
@Riddick

I suggest that you add some study on brain endorphins to your knowledge (especially as could be used to understand Dianetic auditing).

Sticking with a particular AESP in auditing will eventually result in a brain endorphin effect for stress relief (not Hubbard's pseudo-science ).
If the PC gets off into some significance(s) then the auditor is supposed to use TR4 to get the PC back onto the particular AESP.

(No, I am not defending Hubbard nor Dianetics.)
the problem with your theory is that the original people involved never continued and then denounced Hubbard. Those people were John Campbell, and a bunch of others who originally was behind Hubbards Dianetics Master Plan. So, if John Campbell had AESP's in auditing, why didn't he continue?

Nothing to do with brain endorphins is my conclusion.

So the question to ask oneself is how did Hubbard keep dianetics and later create a new religion known as scientology?
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
Not sure I would even bother to convince anyone, Maybe I would send a flyer to them in the mail. It would have to be something really close and personal to me to even bother. I think of what it took to shake Steve Hassan out of it the grip of Rev. Moon though.
 

Helena Handbasket

Active member
IMHO the best way to help someone in Scn leave is NOT to tell them they should leave. If you do, you just become "one of them" to be feared and ignored; not to mention the backlash if Ethics should find out they've been talking to an "anti".

No, the best way is to take them out to lunch in a nice place, good roads and good weather and all that, and let them know if they ever want to come to your house to visit they're welcome -- even without any advance notice.

That way, should they decide to make a run for it, they know they'll have a place to go. No one on the outside can make them leave if they don't want to, but you can remove at least one barrier to their getting out so they can get out.

Helena
 
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Veda

Well-known member
Scientology is a collection of parts. These parts may already be separate (for a person). Or can be tactfully and patiently pried apart.

There are those who pledge their to allegiance only to Ron.

And those who only care only about the tech.

Both above typically have disagreements with the organization, and with Miscavige.

What has sometimes worked is saying that Miscavige betrayed Ron and altered Scientology, possibly in cahoots with the USA government . (I don't actually believe this).

The idea is to separate Miscavige from Hubbard and, if possible to, optimally, separate both from the auditing tech.

And then parts of he auditing tech can be separated from other parts of the auditing tech.

Ultimately, the person is left with remnants of Scientology. He may like these remnants, but these remnants are no longer Scientology but another subject.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Scientology is a collection of parts. These parts may already be separate (for a person). Or can be tactfully and patiently pried apart.

There are those who pledge their to allegiance only to Ron.

And those who only care only about the tech.

Both above typically have disagreements with the organization, and with Miscavige.

What has sometimes worked is saying that Miscavige betrayed Ron and altered Scientology, possibly in cahoots with the USA government . (I don't actually believe this).

The idea is to separate Miscavige from Hubbard and, if possible to, optimally, separate both from the auditing tech.

And then parts of he auditing tech can be separated from other parts of the auditing tech.

Ultimately, the person is left with remnants of Scientology. He may like these remnants, but these remnants are no longer Scientology but another subject.
On a final note, you Veda and you HH, actually explain Hubbard's rhetoric.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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On a final note, you Veda and you HH, actually explain Hubbard's rhetoric.

THE HISTORY OF "RHETORIC" ON ESMB

1. Since the beginning of ESMB, members discussed the many ways that Hubbard influenced others in order to control and defraud them.

2. At some point in time someone mentioned the word "rhetoric".

3. Nobody disagreed that Hubbard used rhetoric in order to perpetrate and propagate his hoax.

4. Some people described or noted that there were other methods (in addition to rhetoric) that Hubbard also used to influence and defraud others.

5. The resident self-appointed expert on rhetoric heavily dismissed, disliked & demeaned the people in #4 (above), because they are squirrels alter-ising the KRW* tech.


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* KRW: 1. Keeping Rhetoric Working. ..2. ESMBkind's only hope.

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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
5. The resident self-appointed expert on rhetoric heavily dismissed, disliked & demeaned the people in #4 (above), because they are squirrels alter-ising the KRW* tech.
I don't understand the overblown emphasis over the years on the concept
of rhetoric in regards to Hubbard.

Seems like rhetoric is a part of EVERYTHING in life and commerce . . . unless
I don't understand the word. Everybody uses and has used rhetoric for most
human activities. I even think a car salesman used it on me once. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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