Hello - Can I Take Scientology Extension Courses With Materials Purchased Used On Ebay?

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
It sometimes amazes me the stupidity of people.

What seems to evade me is my own stupidity.

Glad I am not alone in being stupid.

I liked the cycle of action data myself. I also liked the concept of confusion and the stable datum. I also like the mortgage that we took out on our almost paid for house in order to help purchase our local ideal org. Only a little less than ten years to pay if off now, the principal balance is just a little under 100k.

Another thing that I liked was TRs. Through drilling, I did get the idea that I could really listen to someone. I also knew for the first time who is really listening to me. I believe that it's possible to move your worries along to a separate place without handling them, and that TRs helped in doing that. I also joined staff for almost ten years, and had a reduced relationship all the while with my young son. He is thirty years old now, and we don't have the relationship that I would have preferred to have at my now older age. But I was being smart and helping to "clear the planet."

I thought that the "conditions" were really great - at first. It took some years of being out and looking at them to see what was wrong. I will give you an example:

Down trends usually cause one to apply the condition of Danger. This has you go through certain steps to ensure the down trend doesn't happen again. You can do this for your own self, but look at the trends of many successful endeavors. You will see that on the long march upwards, there will be occasional downward trends. If you apply the danger formula, you target people involved in the project, and use ethics tek to turn them inside out. It is a one size fits all solution that has another target - making people feel bad about themselves.

By the way, the idea that scientology will make you feel bad about yourself is something that anyone thinking about joining in all that scientology fun better think about. It is inevitable that you will find yourself in a position where you are being told you are bad by not doing what the "group" thinks you should do, like donate more money, spend more time, whatever. Scientology will make you feel bad about yourself. That is what it does. Anyone that participates in it and doesn't know that as a fact will find out the hard way. Mark my words.

You are never as bad as scientology says that you are. In fact, you probably are not bad. But, if you like to be involved in something that will tell you that eventually, be my guest.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
<snip>
This is important - Even if Scientology isnt correct about everything or if Ron stole every word I dont care because its the only thing that can get micro enough and to the root enough to be applicable to every aspect of life and help me over ride the philosophy that the abusers programmed me with.
<snip>
Freeman, you write "even if Scientology isn't correct about everything or if Ron stole every word I don't care..."

The problem isn't just that "Scientology isn't correct about everything". The problem is that you're dealing with an organization that uses fraudulent marketing and is severely abusive to both its own staff as well as those who come into the organization. As I wrote in my original response to you, Scientology is constructed as a trap. And when you're studying the subject it's immensely difficult to distinguish what is correct from what isn't. When you're walking around a trap essentially blind to how it was engineered that could be a dangerous endeavor.

@Veda posted this image in his post earlier in the thread:

mouse-trap-illustration-vector.jpg

That mouse, upon eating the cheese came to believe that the person who put it out there loved him. It was exactly what he needed and helped him tremendously.

Unfortunately for him, he misunderstood the intentions of putting out the cheese and this resulted in a very unhappy ending for him which I'm sure you can imagine.

Right now freeman guess what? You're eating the cheese in the trap, seemingly oblivious to the fact that it IS a trap. I would advise you to exercise great caution or you might realize 10 or 20 years from now that you should have paid more attention to the people on this site. It's far better to learn from the negative experiences of others rather than having to experience them for yourself firsthand.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Man thank you so much for posting this.

It looks like a terrific resource.
You're welcome. It places you outside the Scientology organization, which is preferable.

Even then there are a few things to keep in mind. The first is that the nature of subject changes after it becomes confidential. Most Scientologists think the really good stuff is the confidential part. In reality, the opposite is the true. Above the bottom third of the Grade Chart it becomes confidential.

A person looking at a Scientology Grade Chart will naturally assume, "If it was good at the lower part, then the higher part must be even better, and the highest part must be really terrific."

What really happens is that, beyond a certain point, Scientology begins to take over the person.

The idea is to use Scientology in a beneficial manner and, then, having wins, separate from the total package of Scientology - the total package includes the belief that one must always do the next level.

Link to Those who "quit fast" thread,

Those described on the above thread decided to separate from the total package of Scientology at different points. For example, poet, song writer and singer Leonard Cohen decided to move on to other things after having completed Grade 4 of the Lower Grades as a "preclear." He experienced Scientology, had his wins, and then moved on.

An effective way of putting at ease an insistent Scientologist who demands to know why a person is not moving on to the (ever present) next level is to say, "I'm having my wins."

A Scientologist will pause and listen to this because Hubbard stated that a person should be allowed to have his wins.

The words "quit fast" come from the 1965 Policy Letter titled Keeping Scientology Working where Hubbard wrote:

"When someone enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe - never permit an 'open minded' approach. If they're going to quit, let them quit fast."

This was a turning point in Scientology in the direction of authoritarianism. It was also when Scientology began having confidential (mysterious) levels, and the time most often identified as the period when Scientology began implementing many of the ideas and practices of the below booklet on many of its followers:



This may sound pretty wild, but it's all well documented, although the details of it aren't important at this time.

Despite the trend towards authoritarianism, Scientology continued to expand, largely based on the momentum of its first decade and a half.

Many were attracted to Scientology, such the Incredible String Band

In 1968, a Scientologist named Ruth Minshull wrote a book called Miracles for Breakfast. This is a link to a PDF of that book.

Ruth Minshull also wrote this book:



During the early 1980s, all books written by other than L. Ron Hubbard, were banished from Scientology. The trend toward authoritarianism continued.

This trend had been ongoing for some time. For example, the person who had compiled the booklet Any Two Can Do It, in 1954, was declared a "Suppressive Person" years later - despite being one of the most highly trained and experienced people on Scientology - because he did not agree with the authoritarian slant that Scientology has adopted in 1965, even though he was still an admirer of Hubbard.

Link to Any Two Can Do It of 1954.

Any Two Can Do It uses Creative Processing (mock ups) for some questions from the book Self Analysis, as was customary during that time.



This is an example of how Self Analysis book is usually used (using "recall" instead of "mock up"):


Here's a link to Clearing Procedure booklet of 1957.

These are all examples of Scientology before it became secretive and parts of it became "confidential."

IMO, it's good advice to take a pass (politely say, "No Thanks") on any part of Scientology that is secretive or confidential, not because it's dangerous - it isn't, especially if not taken seriously - but because it's the opposite of what Scientology, originally, presented itself as being.

Hubbard, in 1963, described what was to soon become his own "upper levels" while criticizing psychiatry:

"Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells the person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie. Scientology finds out what's wrong with the person from the person."

IMO, it's a good idea to not to let anyone, especially while "in session," tell you the contents of your own mind or space. That's a violation of the spirit of the Auditors Code and, also, the opposite of what Scientology was supposed to be.

Studying wisdom is always a good idea, but not being told what only you can truly know, such as what's in your space or in your mind.

Hope this helps.






 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

I thought that the "conditions" were really great - at first. It took some years of being out and looking at them to see what was wrong. I will give you an example: Down trends usually cause one to apply the condition of Danger. This has you go through certain steps to ensure the down trend doesn't happen again. You can do this for your own self, but look at the trends of many successful endeavors. You will see that on the long march upwards, there will be occasional downward trends. If you apply the danger formula, you target people involved in the project, and use ethics tek to turn them inside out. It is a one size fits all solution that has another target - making people feel bad about themselves.
.
The condition of "DANGER". Excellent example!

If any statistic sharply goes down, a condition of "DANGER" must be declared and the scientific formula steps to escape from DANGER must be immediately applied.

Let's see how that madness works itself out in real life:

An "Ideal Org" suddenly has a crashed stat. This is Danger! It does not matter why the stat has crashed, it's Danger, one mustn't be "reasonable" about it, per policy. In Scientology there are no "justifications" or "reasons" or "excuses". If a stat went down then YOU made it go down. To a person never in the cult, this is crazy. But to a Scientologist this idea is pure genius! Ergo, we end up with this---

2020 - NEW YORK IDEAL ORG: All major statistics have crashed. Gross income is crashed, Auditing Hours crashed. Student Points crashed. You get the idea.

WHAT MANAGEMENT DOES: Scientology senior management and local management, alike, declare the NY Org to "be in a condition of DANGER".

WHAT DO THE STAFF MEMBERS AT NY ORG THEN DO: Well they must immediately begin applying the formula that Hubbard says will 100% resolve any DANGER condition. All liberties are canceled and staff must only be fed rice and beans during this crisis. Their weekly pay of $30 dollars might be reduced to only $5-$10, or perhaps no pay at all. Don't feel bad for them, because THEY did this to themselves! They suppressively MADE the stats go down. This is holy scripture directly from the infallible Dr. Hubbard.

WHAT DO WOGS THINK ABOUT ALL THIS: They think that the NY IDEAL ORG is closed for 7 months, due to Covid-19, which is why the stats are crashed. But that would be wrong. The staff members (who no longer are even in the Ideal Org building due to it being boarded up) are the real problem. So each of the staff members must:

- - - - - WRITE UP ALL THEIR CRIMES & OVERTS & WITHHOLDS: It is these evil acts that caused them to shut down the org. Covid-19 has nothing to do with it. When they disclose all their crimes they must be checked on the Ideal lie detector (e-meter) to see if they are lying. When the e-meter says it's okay, the staff member must go directly to the next step of the DANGER formula.

- - - - - DISCOVER WHAT OUT-ETHICS SITUATION THEY ARE INVOLVED IN AND GET IT HONEST AND STRAIGHT: You see, simply writing up their crimes for the past million years is not enough to vanquish the Covid virus that shut down the org and crashed the stats. Each individual staff member also has a horrible "out-ethics situation" that not only crashed the stats in 2020---but is also keeping the stats crashed in 2021!

Thus the Scientology staff members must spend long periods of introspective self-examination to find all the horrible things they have done and thought that caused the diabolical virus to flourish and prosper, which sabotaged the ideal NY Org which had been perfectly ideal until the staff members royally screwed it up with their crimes.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN? Well, then the staff member must turn a full write-up of their Danger Formula (all steps) to the "Ethics Officer", who must then read it and determine if they really deserve to be upgraded to EMERGENCY. The Ethics Officer is also in DANGER but he is nonetheless able to judge each staff member's complicity in creating the org's complete shutdown. Of particular interest to the Ethics Officer will be the "out ethics situation" that every staff member discovered for themselves. Typically a Scientologist's "out ethics situation" would be things like:

  • Not making it go right to stay awake after working all night writing letters to people in central files that haven't been in the org for decades. The staff member "covertly" went into a broom closet and took a nap, and this was the out-ethics situation that was sabotaging the org and the entire planet from escaping the MEST trap.
  • Masturbating. This always crashes stats and in fact is the reason the Earth became a "slave planet".
  • Dramatizing evil purposes, like the time when they didn't visit their dying grandmother in the hospital, which is a major overt of omission. Because had they visited the grandmother before she died, it would have been really good PR and that might have resulted in getting an inheritance which could then been donated to the Ideal Org for new Italian marble floors in the bathroom. The super-upstat marble MEST would have, per policy, boomed the org's income stats and that would have "out-created" the covid pandemic.
  • Betraying Ron by not using their OT potential and making tone 40 postulates that the crashed stats would suddenly soar into a condition of Power! Because every being has those miraculous OT powers and the only reason they can't use those powers is because they are "stopping themselves". Remarkably, this is why the org's stats are also crashed---because staff members are "stopping" the stats from going up. All of this resolves instantly when the staff member applies DANGER and cognites how evil they personally are, even though they previously achieved the states of Clear and Operating Thetan. Wait! That's another out-ethics situation, allowing the stats to crash which brings disrepute the super-ethical states of Clear/OT and gives everyone the false data that the tech doesn't work.

.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Freeman, you write "even if Scientology isn't correct about everything or if Ron stole every word I don't care..."

The problem isn't just that "Scientology isn't correct about everything". The problem is that you're dealing with an organization that uses fraudulent marketing and is severely abusive to both its own staff as well as those who come into the organization. As I wrote in my original response to you, Scientology is constructed as a trap. And when you're studying the subject it's immensely difficult to distinguish what is correct from what isn't. When you're walking around a trap essentially blind to how it was engineered that could be a dangerous endeavor.

@Veda posted this image in his post earlier in the thread:

View attachment 9222

That mouse, upon eating the cheese came to believe that the person who put it out there loved him. It was exactly what he needed and helped him tremendously.

Unfortunately for him, he misunderstood the intentions of putting out the cheese and this resulted in a very unhappy ending for him which I'm sure you can imagine.

Right now freeman guess what? You're eating the cheese in the trap, seemingly oblivious to the fact that it IS a trap. I would advise you to exercise great caution or you might realize 10 or 20 years from now that you should have paid more attention to the people on this site. It's far better to learn from the negative experiences of others rather than having to experience them for yourself firsthand.
Good explanation.

But I don't think Freeman is inclined to do Scientology inside an official Scientology Inc. Organization.

Did you read the link below the illustration?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Good explanation.

But I don't think Freeman is inclined to do Scientology inside an official Scientology Inc. Organization.

Did you read the link below the illustration?
Just now I read it and it makes a LOT of sense, thank you Veda.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
OK Here ya go.

It might get a little uncomfortable in the personal section.


There are many things that the Books, Lectures, and Free online courses are helping me with.

Professional:


1. Organization - I have Rons lectures on organization and have taken the tools for life course. It has helped me immensely.

2. The Tone Scale - Why is it that I can be a fairly "smart" person. Yet I am unable to get my production to the level that I know I am capable of. The tone scale answered this for me. It is because I am unable to produce 'free theta' (I dont know if thats the correct terminology) when I am in a bored or apathetical mood. The higher I am up the tone scale, the more productive I am. The more creative I can think. Ect. Therefore I keep my work area clean and aesthetic, never read bad news or tolerate negativity, put art up around my work space and I am more productive. It works.

3. The 7 Devision Org Board - I am trying to build a consulting business. Understanding the idea of "hats" and keeping my production hat on and not jumping from my sales hat to my production hat to my accounting hat has made me 100x more productive. Previously I would, in a way, confuse my mind by jumping around to much and not saying on tasks of the same category.

I remember a couple of months ago before I got more serious about Scientology going to the book store every day for 3-4 days trying to find answers. I spent hours in there each day. I bought a few books. The Harvard Business Review books were OK. But it wasn't what I was looking for. Not one book in that store had the answers I was looking for.

I thought to myself.."where did I see that mental image I have..hmm oh yeah its the 7 devision org board." I then thought to myself, "why am I messing about in this book store when I know where the answers are to the questions I have?" I went home and bought all the books used off Amazon and started doing the free tools for life courses.

4. The Problems of Work - the idea of start change stop. This idea and book have helped me immensely. When I am not producing. What is the problem? Is the problem that I have a hard time starting?? Am I not getting enough sleep? Does having cup of coffee ready help? No. The problem today is not getting started. Today I am staying on the same task to long and over analyze to death so the problem is changing what task I am doing. Or is that a problem with not being able to stop? As you can see I dont have it all down cold but you get the idea of how this has effected my thinking and its helping me.



Personal:

1. My parents were narcissistic and abusive in that respect. I was force homeschooled my whole life and at 16 I was told I could never have friends again and my mother basically screamed at me and programmed me with self destructive programming 2-3 nights per week until 2-5am. They threw me out at 20 and I was homeless before living with a friend. It was a doozy. I got a job selling cars after not being able to go any further in college due to the circumstances and survived.

From 16-30 I have not made a single friend (the friend above was made at 13). I am not capable. I am not capable (saying it again for emphasis) of making friends, or anything more then basic social interactions (going to luch with somebody for example is intermediate), because the abuse is triggered when I socialize with people. I go into fight or flight mode at random and 15 years later its not going away. Its getting worse because the more failures the more engrams.

Example: Coworkers say "come out after work" I say no and they get very offended like "wtf is wrong with this guy." what a jerk" "hes weird blah blah blah." I say yes, and I go out with coworkers and what happens is the abuse from childhood gets triggered. All of the sudden I am in fight or flight mode out of nowhere.

I go out of my frontal cortex and into my phiso animal and I cant get out. I freeze and sweat. Understand, nothing is going on and everything is fine when this happens. All frontal cortex functions, like talking for example, shut down and I can’t get it back on. I don't just get up and leave. Iv only been there 10 minutes. I do my best slipping in and out of these modes of flashbacks, and very bad social attempts, plus the fear of how people are perceiving this. People notice and I am from then on forever ostracized. I now have to be around people that ostracize me every day.

I have read books on therapy. Yes its nice to know what was wrong and what was abuse back in those days. But its not helping me stop the self destructive programming that is going on deep in core of the onion that is my psyche or anything else. It just confirms that what happened was wrong.

Scientology has given me a blueprint I can work with regardless of auditing. I know what is happening from a more workable perspective now. I am reacting to abuse from the past. ect. Ect. Before I didn’t know what was going on. For years I didn’t know what was happening. These terrible events would take place and I had no clue the two were related.

Its hard for me to articulate over a forum post but know that this is a problem I cant solve alone or with traditional sit on a couch a whine about it therapy because it is a two sided coin which I go into further bellow.

Heres another personal example of how Scientology has helped me: I used to run dramatizations in my bedroom of the abuse until I would be physically sick and exhausted. (psycosomaic illness) Completely drained of all life and energy.

This would just start happening without my knowing it was happening. It was like I didn’t even know it wasn’t normal. It was just another few days mid week for me.

For days I would be reacting to abuse that happened 15 years ago and it would make me extremely paranoid like a child that doesnt know when hes gonna get struck again. I know that all of the brain chemicals like cortisol and neuro adrenaline were flooding my brain when this is going on and I couldnt stop. Alone, isolated in my room, coming out only for food amped up on adrenalin, cortisol, and paranoid. This causes permanent brain damage by the way. The constant flood of chemicals shrink the frontal cortex and enlarges the amygdala. This was happening only a month ago and as far as I knew it was totally normal.

I heard Ron talk about dramatizations and now it has stopped. Just understanding what was happening from the way Ron thought about it stopped it cold. STOPPED IT DEAD IN ITS TRACKS. I’m just trying to be honest here.

But its more than "aww poor baby sit on a couch and wine about it in therapy." This is a problem that "therapy" cant solve because its a two sided coin.

On one side is the abuse and what scientology calls engrams the other side is that I have next to zero experience with the outside world because I was locked in that house.

I have my parents underlying philosophy on things. I see things through the lens they gave me because thats 80% of what I grew up with. The core of the onion of my slant on life is theirs

From 16-21 during my most important formative years I was alone in a house with crazy people who hated me. Hated me. I have their philosophy on life, on myself, and everything else because it is mostly all that I have ever been exposed to.

There was a very short time I was exposed to the skateboarding culture and that was a massive benefit for me but it cant over ride the abuse programming. I have tried skateboarding again at 29 to try to trigger that type of thinking but it didn’t work.

This is where things like the 8 dynamics, tone scale, and stuff helps more than. “read books like “How To Win Friends And Influence People" again for the 5th time" to get better social skills or “read Jordan Petersons 12 Rules For Life and just relax and cheer up.”

People who think like this don’t understand how this doesn’t help if your foundation is total bonkers.

Reading “people want to feel important” (thats from How To Win Friends And Influence People) doesn’t help in my case.

“Everything a person does is to help his survival” works more then “make everybody feel important” because it helps to understand the core of humanity not a gimmick to get a sale.

LRH gets at the core of the onion, the root of the subject so that you have a firm foundation to base everything else off of. The other people just get 1 layer into the onion and write a tips book.

Other philosophers are very macro “what is life” “what is the meaning of life” Rons philosophy is micro and is workable. Not mental masturbation. No disrespect to them and I do like their work but its not the same.

This is important - Even if Scientology isnt correct about everything or if Ron stole every word I dont care because its the only thing that can get micro enough and to the root enough to be applicable to every aspect of life and help me over ride the philosophy that the abusers programmed me with.

For example: People want the best for themselves, then their family, then their race or group, then mankind, then the animals, then the universe.

That works. That is a linchpin I can base everything else off of. I don’t care if its not what some other person agrees with. I don’t care that LRH wans’t a Jesus figure. It is something that WORKS.

Before I learned this idea everything social happened completely at random I had no control over anything, everything was chaos. I was unable to see the patterns of behavior myself.

People can say to themselves “this is common knowledge” like the ARC triangle for example. Good for you got lucky. You just got lucky in your earlier years.

I have to have a working philosophy for every single little thing that can come in life and I am going to have to drill it into my head to override the philosophy that my parents forced upon me.

I need a philosophy that will work. "work is good because if you don't work you will slowly go mad, work is the stable datum of society, work gives you a place in society. When we think about people who cant work we think about people in prison ect." THAT WORKS.

Understand that I am not stupid here. I understand hard selling. I get that they want all my money, which I don't really have. I have a strong ability to think for myself which is why I am confident that I wont become a cult member or something. (I get the irony of that statement)

I feel bad for people that spent their life savings. It shouldn't be that expensive. It sounds like the Catholic Church selling indulgences. But I have to have more. I have to have everything....

I am hoping to get more of the above out of Scientology.
you must be a indie or present time church member. Everything you wrote is a parrot of Hubbard's rhetoric. Good job on writing that but I won't fall for it since I've been there done that.
 

freeman37373

New member
Good explanation.

But I don't think Freeman is inclined to do Scientology inside an official Scientology Inc. Organization.

Did you read the link below the illustration?
Pretty much this.

This thread really has me thinking about learning everything on my own that I want to learn. Mainly the books and there respective lectures, the congresses, the ACC.

I'm sure I will want to get audited then though.

Is it a bad idea to let The Church do that?

I have been audited once and I thought it went pretty well. I was very apprehensive though because of all the negative news and things like that.

One of those websites you post above led me to find all of the materials available for download. So that makes it very easy to learn what I want to learn.

What do you think about the auditing?

No joining staff, no sea org, no massive purchases on books and things..

Its going to be tough reading through all that material and writing notes in a notepad next to the books and lectures and not wanting to try out the auditing I just learned about.

However, I do understand the greed, high pressure, cult like nature, and other peoples bad experiences....I would certainly look out for the signs of the bad experiences people have shared with me.

I want it to help me make money too as well as the spiritual stuff.

You seem like a very knowledgeable and experienced person Veda.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
you must be a indie or present time church member. Everything you wrote is a parrot of Hubbard's rhetoric. Good job on writing that but I won't fall for it since I've been there done that.
From all indications Freeman is an Indie, who has studied Scientology with a greater understanding than we had when we were newly involved.

Link to the YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN thread | Ex Scientologist Message Board


This is an informal description of a process used in Scientology before Hubbard started psychologically deteriorating.


 

freeman37373

New member
WHAT DO THE STAFF MEMBERS AT NY ORG THEN DO: Well they must immediately begin applying the formula that Hubbard says will 100% resolve any DANGER condition. All liberties are canceled and staff must only be fed rice and beans during this crisis. Their weekly pay of $30 dollars might be reduced to only $5-$10, or perhaps no pay at all. Don't feel bad for them, because THEY did this to themselves! They suppressively MADE the stats go down. This is holy scripture directly from the infallible Dr. Hubbard.

WHAT DO WOGS THINK ABOUT ALL THIS: They think that the NY IDEAL ORG is closed for 7 months, due to Covid-19, which is why the stats are crashed. But that would be wrong. The staff members (who no longer are even in the Ideal Org building due to it being boarded up) are the real problem. So each of the staff members must:

- - - - - WRITE UP ALL THEIR CRIMES & OVERTS & WITHHOLDS: It is these evil acts that caused them to shut down the org. Covid-19 has nothing to do with it. When they disclose all their crimes they must be checked on the Ideal lie detector (e-meter) to see if they are lying. When the e-meter says it's okay, the staff member must go directly to the next step of the DANGER formula.

- - - - - DISCOVER WHAT OUT-ETHICS SITUATION THEY ARE INVOLVED IN AND GET IT HONEST AND STRAIGHT: You see, simply writing up their crimes for the past million years is not enough to vanquish the Covid virus that shut down the org and crashed the stats. Each individual staff member also has a horrible "out-ethics situation" that not only crashed the stats in 2020---but is also keeping the stats crashed in 2021!

Thus the Scientology staff members must spend long periods of introspective self-examination to find all the horrible things they have done and thought that caused the diabolical virus to flourish and prosper, which sabotaged the ideal NY Org which had been perfectly ideal until the staff members royally screwed it up with their crimes.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN? Well, then the staff member must turn a full write-up of their Danger Formula (all steps) to the "Ethics Officer", who must then read it and determine if they really deserve to be upgraded to EMERGENCY. The Ethics Officer is also in DANGER but he is nonetheless able to judge each staff member's complicity in creating the org's complete shutdown. Of particular interest to the Ethics Officer will be the "out ethics situation" that every staff member discovered for themselves. Typically a Scientologist's "out ethics situation" would be things like:

  • Not making it go right to stay awake after working all night writing letters to people in central files that haven't been in the org for decades. The staff member "covertly" went into a broom closet and took a nap, and this was the out-ethics situation that was sabotaging the org and the entire planet from escaping the MEST trap.
  • Masturbating. This always crashes stats and in fact is the reason the Earth became a "slave planet".
  • Dramatizing evil purposes, like the time when they didn't visit their dying grandmother in the hospital, which is a major overt of omission. Because had they visited the grandmother before she died, it would have been really good PR and that might have resulted in getting an inheritance which could then been donated to the Ideal Org for new Italian marble floors in the bathroom. The super-upstat marble MEST would have, per policy, boomed the org's income stats and that would have "out-created" the covid pandemic.
  • Betraying Ron by not using their OT potential and making tone 40 postulates that the crashed stats would suddenly soar into a condition of Power! Because every being has those miraculous OT powers and the only reason they can't use those powers is because they are "stopping themselves". Remarkably, this is why the org's stats are also crashed---because staff members are "stopping" the stats from going up. All of this resolves instantly when the staff member applies DANGER and cognites how evil they personally are, even though they previously achieved the states of Clear and Operating Thetan. Wait! That's another out-ethics situation, allowing the stats to crash which brings disrepute the super-ethical states of Clear/OT and gives everyone the false data that the tech doesn't work.

.
This is pretty wild. I interpreted the condition of danger formula to work like:

Here is the formula for the Personal Danger Condition.

  1. Bypass habits (usual ways of behaving) or normal routines.
    By bypass is meant here to avoid doing something or do something by using another route or way.
  2. Handle the situation and any danger in it.
  3. Tell yourself that you are in a Danger Condition.
  4. Get in your own personal ethics by finding what you are doing that is not ethical and use personal control to correct it and get honest and straight.
  5. Reorganize your life so that the dangerous situation does not continue to happen to you.
  6. Work out in detail and start to use firm policy (rules or guidelines) that will, in the future, find and prevent the same situation from occurring.

The danger is my fitness regime falling apart and missing days ect for example.

1. Stop doing my daily routine. Understand that I have to change my routine, and get back to the routine I was in when I was going to the gym and eating healthy.
2. Throw out all the bad food, the alcohol, anything that could tempt me to fall back into the bad routine that got me in the condition of Danger in the first place.
3. Acknowledge that my fitness regime is in a condition of danger and dont just blow off completing these steps.
4. Sort of like step 2 but goes further then immediate temptations.
5. Clean my room and organize everything, start watching fitness videos again to stay motivated, buy healthy food and pre cook meals, so that everything is easily accessible and I am motivated.
6. No boozing on the weekends, always have healthy food prepped, work out every day instead of 3 days per week to stay in habbit.

Reading your post sounds like an abuse of a helpful stable datum of what to do when something you are trying to accomplish that takes a long time takes a nose dive in terms of progress.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Pretty much this.

This thread really has me thinking about learning everything on my own that I want to learn. Mainly the books and there respective lectures, the congresses, the ACC.

I'm sure I will want to get audited then.

Is it a bad idea to let The Church do that?

I have been audited once and I thought it went pretty well. I was very apprehensive though because of all the negative news and things like that.

One of those websites you post above led me to find all of the materials available for download. So that makes it very easy to learn what I want to learn.

What do you think about the auditing?

No joining staff, no sea org, no massive purchases on books and things..

Its going to be tuff reading through all that material and writing notes in a notepad next to the books and lectures and not wanting to try out the auditing I just learned about.

However, I do understand the greed, high pressure, cult like nature, and other peoples bad experiences....I would certainly look out for the signs of the bad experiences people have shared with me.

I want it to help me make money too as well as the spiritual stuff.

You seem like a very knowledgeable and experienced person Veda.
Auditing? I audited a lot of people inside Scientology and also outside the bureaucracy of Scientology.

As I noted earlier, I don't recommend the confidential parts of Scientology.

That's where a person ends up adopting Hubbard's "case" (his hang ups) as his own.

There are lots of interesting processes in the book Creation of Human Ability published in 1954.

Nothing was secret then. No head games.

Find a good Independent auditor and have him give you some basic training as auditor, and then audit others. I think you'll find it a worthwhile experience. Receiving introductory auditing is fine too.


 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
@freeman37373

Once they find out you have been talking to us (and they will) they'll demand that you pay for extra intensives so they can 'pull your overts and withholds and check if you are PTS' (a potential trouble source) and anything else they can think of ... so perhaps you should do as Veda suggests if you really want to go down the auditing path, but I hope you realise that it is a very old (1950's) technique that has been improved many times over outside of the cult and it has a crazy side.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
This is pretty wild. I interpreted the condition of danger formula to work like:

Here is the formula for the Personal Danger Condition.

  1. Bypass habits (usual ways of behaving) or normal routines.
    By bypass is meant here to avoid doing something or do something by using another route or way.
  2. Handle the situation and any danger in it.
  3. Tell yourself that you are in a Danger Condition.
  4. Get in your own personal ethics by finding what you are doing that is not ethical and use personal control to correct it and get honest and straight.
  5. Reorganize your life so that the dangerous situation does not continue to happen to you.
  6. Work out in detail and start to use firm policy (rules or guidelines) that will, in the future, find and prevent the same situation from occurring.

The danger is my fitness regime falling apart and missing days ect for example.

1. Stop doing my daily routine. Understand that I have to change my routine, and get back to the routine I was in when I was going to the gym and eating healthy.
2. Throw out all the bad food, the alcohol, anything that could tempt me to fall back into the bad routine that got me in the condition of Danger in the first place.
3. Acknowledge that my fitness regime is in a condition of danger and dont just blow off completing these steps.
4. Sort of like step 2 but goes further then immediate temptations.
5. Clean my room and organize everything, start watching fitness videos again to stay motivated, buy healthy food and pre cook meals, so that everything is easily accessible and I am motivated.
6. No boozing on the weekends, always have healthy food prepped, work out every day instead of 3 days per week to stay in habbit.

Reading your post sounds like an abuse of a helpful stable datum of what to do when something you are trying to accomplish that takes a long time takes a nose dive in terms of progress.
.

Sure, I understand there there can be some common sense threads within selected portions of Scientology "scripture".

It would be cool if people studying Scientology could maintain their wits about them and focus on the rational bits. It happens on some occasions. However, Scientology is geared so that it has its own gravitational force field. The more you study it or apply it the closer you go into orbit around the home planet Ron.

I have audited many others and trained even more. I've done various stints as a staff member and executive in that organization. I have spoken to the highest of the highs and lowest, newest newbies. One thing clearly emerges. The more you "apply" Scientology the worse things become in terms of your free thought, rationality, ethics and even sanity.

I have a feeling you've been much more experienced with Scientology than a newbie who is "just thinkin' of doin' some extension courses". But if you want to do Scientology why don't you just do it? What advice are you looking for?

People on this thread have politely warned you about some of the pitfalls of applying the "technology" created by a criminal sociopath and con man named Hubbard.

Dive in dude, and go OT. See how you like chasing body thetans for ten years. Come and report back if you become the first person in the history of Scientology to attain "powers" or the ability to go "exterior with full perception".

Here is the part that I find kind of paradoxically humorous. You have a healthy appetite for learning Hubbard's technology. Yet you don't want to go into one of Hubbard's "orgs". Why not? The answer is obvious. Because it's toxic, filled with lies and people who criminally trick you to pay them many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Don't you get the punchline to this joke? You want to learn the "tech", yet the tech made all those Scientologists and staff members into delusional and diabolically conniving liars.

If the tech turned all those Scientologists into wacky-woos, why do you think the tech is going to turn you into something else?

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
@freeman37373

Once they find out you have been talking to us (and they will) they'll demand that you pay for extra intensives so they can 'pull your overts and withholds and check if you are PTS' (a potential trouble source) and anything else they can think of ... so perhaps you should do as Veda suggests if you really want to go down the auditing path, but I hope you realise that it is a very old (1950's) technique that has been improved many times over outside of the cult and it has a crazy side.

Good point. And to put some frosting on top of what you said, it's rather revealing to note that the #1 bestselling Scientology book since 1950 is Dianetics. And that book claims to make Clears. Except in 1958 Hubbard admitted on a film that Dianetics DOES NOT PRODUCE A CLEAR.

Yet they are still selling "the Dianetic bridge to Clear", still selling the book (without disclaimers), still selling Dianetic auditing and still promoting that Dianetics makes clears. See link at: HUBBARD ADMITS DIANETICS IS A FRAUD.

Anyone who knows that Hubbard and all his worldwide organizations are selling and promoting the fraud called "DIANETICS" (when the Founder himself said Dianetics doesn't produce a Clear) is going to have some very bad surprises down the road. Because that's not the only thing Scientology lies about. Well, the warning could not be more clear, but some people see a sign that says "DANGEROUS QUICKSAND! BACK AWAY!!" and just laugh it off thinking that they know better.

.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
This is pretty wild. I interpreted the condition of danger formula to work like:

Here is the formula for the Personal Danger Condition.

  1. Bypass habits (usual ways of behaving) or normal routines.
    By bypass is meant here to avoid doing something or do something by using another route or way.
  2. Handle the situation and any danger in it.
  3. Tell yourself that you are in a Danger Condition.
  4. Get in your own personal ethics by finding what you are doing that is not ethical and use personal control to correct it and get honest and straight.
  5. Reorganize your life so that the dangerous situation does not continue to happen to you.
  6. Work out in detail and start to use firm policy (rules or guidelines) that will, in the future, find and prevent the same situation from occurring.

The danger is my fitness regime falling apart and missing days ect for example.

1. Stop doing my daily routine. Understand that I have to change my routine, and get back to the routine I was in when I was going to the gym and eating healthy.
2. Throw out all the bad food, the alcohol, anything that could tempt me to fall back into the bad routine that got me in the condition of Danger in the first place.
3. Acknowledge that my fitness regime is in a condition of danger and dont just blow off completing these steps.
4. Sort of like step 2 but goes further then immediate temptations.
5. Clean my room and organize everything, start watching fitness videos again to stay motivated, buy healthy food and pre cook meals, so that everything is easily accessible and I am motivated.
6. No boozing on the weekends, always have healthy food prepped, work out every day instead of 3 days per week to stay in habbit.

Reading your post sounds like an abuse of a helpful stable datum of what to do when something you are trying to accomplish that takes a long time takes a nose dive in terms of progress.
There's how the condition was written about, and there's how it was actually used in the Orgs.

Inherent and implicit in the Danger condition, as actually used in Scientology, is that any time a subordinate is assigned Danger, that the entire blame for the down statistic goes to the subordinate, and none gets associated with any errors or incompetency of the senior.

This was convenient when LRH wrote it, when he was trying to run the early organizations. It forced his subordinates to look inwards on themselves (introverting) rather than spend even a moment looking at any contributing factors coming from LRH.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member

LOL.

I always like these kind of threads where people earnestly seek advice about Scn.

1. I am really wanting to do Scientology. What do you think?
2. (everyone) Don't do it! It's a cruel & avaricious hoax!
3. Really? But I still really want to do Scientology. Any advice?
4. (everyone) Yes! Don't do it! It's a cruel & avaricious hoax!
5. But i need advice about where to buy Ron's books.
6. (everyone) You can buy them at an org or on eBay.
7. But i really need advice if I should do Scientology.
8. (everyone) Don't do it! It's a cruel & avaricious hoax!
9. I really wish someone would give me advice about Scientology.
10. (everyone) We did. But you ignored it.
11. Okay, but I am really wanting to do Scientology. What do you think?

.
 
Last edited:

Bill

Well-known member
This is pretty wild. I interpreted the condition of danger formula to work like:

Here is the formula for the Personal Danger Condition.

  1. Bypass habits (usual ways of behaving) or normal routines.
    By bypass is meant here to avoid doing something or do something by using another route or way.
  2. Handle the situation and any danger in it.
  3. Tell yourself that you are in a Danger Condition.
  4. Get in your own personal ethics by finding what you are doing that is not ethical and use personal control to correct it and get honest and straight.
  5. Reorganize your life so that the dangerous situation does not continue to happen to you.
  6. Work out in detail and start to use firm policy (rules or guidelines) that will, in the future, find and prevent the same situation from occurring.

The danger is my fitness regime falling apart and missing days ect for example.

1. Stop doing my daily routine. Understand that I have to change my routine, and get back to the routine I was in when I was going to the gym and eating healthy.
2. Throw out all the bad food, the alcohol, anything that could tempt me to fall back into the bad routine that got me in the condition of Danger in the first place.
3. Acknowledge that my fitness regime is in a condition of danger and dont just blow off completing these steps.
4. Sort of like step 2 but goes further then immediate temptations.
5. Clean my room and organize everything, start watching fitness videos again to stay motivated, buy healthy food and pre cook meals, so that everything is easily accessible and I am motivated.
6. No boozing on the weekends, always have healthy food prepped, work out every day instead of 3 days per week to stay in habbit.

Reading your post sounds like an abuse of a helpful stable datum of what to do when something you are trying to accomplish that takes a long time takes a nose dive in terms of progress.
If you need Hubbard's "formulas" to be able to work out what's wrong and how to improve things, then, perhaps, you DO need Scientology. Personally, I found common sense worked a whole lot better, but that's just me.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
If you apply the danger formula, you target people involved in the project, and use ethics tek to turn them inside out. It is a one size fits all solution that has another target - making people feel bad about themselves.
Yep. If I had to boil down everything that is wrong with Hubbard's management philosophy to just two bulletpoints it would be:

- "One size fits all"
- "Crank everything up to 11 where it no longer makes any darn sense"
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Pretty much this.

This thread really has me thinking about learning everything on my own that I want to learn. Mainly the books and there respective lectures, the congresses, the ACC.

I'm sure I will want to get audited then though.

Is it a bad idea to let The Church do that?

I have been audited once and I thought it went pretty well. I was very apprehensive though because of all the negative news and things like that.

One of those websites you post above led me to find all of the materials available for download. So that makes it very easy to learn what I want to learn.

What do you think about the auditing?

No joining staff, no sea org, no massive purchases on books and things..

Its going to be tough reading through all that material and writing notes in a notepad next to the books and lectures and not wanting to try out the auditing I just learned about.

However, I do understand the greed, high pressure, cult like nature, and other peoples bad experiences....I would certainly look out for the signs of the bad experiences people have shared with me.

I want it to help me make money too as well as the spiritual stuff.

You seem like a very knowledgeable and experienced person Veda.
To be very specific to your question about auditing: Satisfy your curiosity, but don't do it with the Church of Scn. Why subject yourself to all the bullshit? And believe me you are going to encounter a lot of it if you choose to do it in an "Org". Just the fact that you've posted here would to cause you a pile of grief at some point. Find an indi auditor. You will avoid the trials and tribulations of dealing with an "Org" and it will cost you a fraction of the price.
 
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