Heads Up - New Marty Dump

statpush

Member
That combination doesn't hold water. If Marty/Monique drop the case, that automatically prevents Marty from dragging it out "for years or even decades".
No. Marty isn't the one dragging it out for years - its the church! This is straight from their playbook. Marty had some idea of what kind of defense the church would mount, and all their delay tactics, etc.

What do you mean by "kinda petered out"? Was Monique winning or losing the case at the point when they dropped the case?
Did we read the same article? This went on for years, with long periods of no activity, and no communication. So, yeah, petered out.

It is not possible for no.4 to be the end of the story. If that occurs, then we are back at square one having to choose between the 3 "end of story options":
Why is this inconceivable? That a person would just walk away from a lawsuit that is likely to many, many years to fight, with no guarantee of victory. Not too many are up for that challenge. Would you? I wouldn't. Its very easy for us non-litigants, to tell Marty & Monique want to do. Its very different to live it.

Seeing the house they purchased, we know 1&2 did not happen. That kinda narrows it down :D
We have no idea where Marty and Monique got their 100k down payment on their house. This is no reason to automatically assume a shadowy, secret deal with Scn, especially without evidence. People get their down payment money from many sources, such as: savings, inheritance, gifts, stocks and investments, liquidating assets, pensions, personal loans, to name a few. Jeffrey has admitted, after investigating M & M, that no evidence of such a secret deal could be found. If anyone has a reason to find such evidence - its Jeffrey.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
You seem to be stuck on 3 options -- there are far more possibilities.
That's entirely possible that there is some other options that I didn't see. But the option that statpush presented doesn't hold water because of the problems with it that I outlined in my previous 2 posts.

If you have an idea for a possible explanation outside the 3 options I presented, please share. Especially if you know more about the events behind the scenes than I do.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
No. Marty isn't the one dragging it out for years - its the church! This is straight from their playbook. Marty had some idea of what kind of defense the church would mount, and all their delay tactics, etc.
Thanks for the explanation. To be fair, in the previous sentence you were writing about Mary and Monique and then your next sentence started with: "They would throw everything they had at it, and attempt to drag it out for years(...)". So I was under the impression that by "They" you are still speaking about Marty and Monique. For the church I'd expect to use "it" or "he" (as in David).

Did we read the same article? This went on for years, with long periods of no activity, and no communication. So, yeah, petered out.
Maybe we didn't. Let's look at the timeline:

- August 2013: The lawsuit is filed.
- November 2015: Rathbuns score their victory at the Texas court of appeals.
- Feb 2016: Rathbuns fire the lawyers.
- April 2016: Rathbuns drop the lawsuit.
- Sept 2016: Marty starts to attack scn critics on his blog.

So Rathbun fires Ray and 2 months later drops the lawsuit without hiring a new lawyer. That's not something that "petered out" after long periods of inactivity.

From then on Marty stopped attacking Dave, at the same time the squirrel busters have disappeared and there are no apparent attempts to heckle, harass or intimidate the Rathbuns. The Rathbuns buy a new house.

I still smell a big fat rat.

Why is this inconceivable? That a person would just walk away from a lawsuit that is likely to many, many years to fight, with no guarantee of victory. Not too many are up for that challenge. Would you?
If I filed a lawsuit against the church for fair gaming me, failed to win the case and then dropped the lawsuit in apparent defeat THEN the church would double-down on me. They would bill me their legal fees. They would fair-game me all the more knowing that I failed in court. They would be out there trying to "crush me utterly".

So if you are saying that Marty gave up because he believed that he would lose the lawsuit either way, then why the heck did the CoS leave him alone? It never did it to anyone else that lost to them. This would be against policy. The OSA legal guys are trained to be as vindictive and obstinate as terriers.

We have no idea where Marty and Monique got their 100k down payment on their house. This is no reason to automatically assume a shadowy, secret deal with Scn, especially without evidence.
Then riddle me this:
- Why after all these years of fair-game did Dave suddenly leave them alone?
- Why didn't the CoS try to pile their legal fees for the suit on Marty and Monique?
- Why after so many years of attacking Dave, Marty stops that and starts to attack Leah and other critics instead?

There's no smoke without a fire.

Extraordinary behavior on the side of the CoS requires an extraordinary explantion.
 
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freethinker

Controversial
A realistic scenario, is, Jeffrey, coming off of the Debbie Cook win, sought to repeat his success. I think Marty saw the Cook case as a fluke, a rare occasion where the church was caught flatfooted. But, with Monique's lawsuit, they would not make the same mistake. They would throw everything they had at it, and attempt to drag it out for years or even decades. How would Marty know this? Because that's what he did for 25+ years.

Jeffrey, on the other hand, may have been mesmerized by that shiny pot o' gold. Thinking, if we just get the DM deposition, they'll be reaching for the checkbook. Which may be a fair assumption. But, it would come with conditions. Conditions Marty would never find acceptable. And maybe during all of this, Jeffrey saw that the Cook victory brought him some notoriety in the ex community, and that there were other potential lawsuits that could be turned around much quicker than Monique's, which already was a years-long case. Plus, having Marty as a client likely posed its own problems.

As Marty tells it, sounds like the whole thing kinda petered out, after client and lawyer could never agree to a legal strategy.
So why didn't he get a new lawyer? Why did he say it accomplished what he set out to do? Why didn't he say what it accomplished?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
"If the brown blazer fits, you must convict!"
Marty Rathbun ~ The Proof
Look at what he did, disregard what he says.

I did a Zapruder-esque investigation into Marty's 84 videos,
just to put the subject to rest, especially for newbies. :coolwink:
  • Marty does not own a camera or lens capable of the video shoots. Does not have the skills.
  • Professional sound and lighting done on a set by pros. (See images below.)
  • Focus on face perfect and background out of focus. Good lens. Good work.
  • I suspect he has on light make-up.
  • Marty does not have the video editing software or skills to produce these videos. (Technical clues in video files themselves.)
  • Set seems too staged with generic books and fake plant perfectly placed.
  • These 84 videos would have cost tens of thousands, if not six figures, to produce and edit professionally.
  • Marty has a background in fiction writing.
Where did Marty get the money? (That's a lot of donuts he'd have to sell, LOL.)

Why would he spend that kind of money himself? :whistle:
What for? A vanity project? :LOL:

There's only one conclusion, no matter what he drones on about in his screeds.

All the physical evidence -- and financial support that would have been necessary -- points in one direction
and one direction only: a COS op.

Look at what he did, disregard what he says.
~ click on images to view larger ~

Marty-Lighting1a.jpg Marty-Lighting2a.jpg MartyCoat1a.jpg

¯\_(ツ)_/¯​
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
This thread is way too confusing. My only takeaway is stay as far away from
Marty and his troubles as you can. He's a psycho locking horns with another
psycho (DM).

I'll break it down my way, my speculations.

1. Ray gets two quick and easy scores . . . Debbie and Wayne; the two Pat Broker
private eyes. That yields him about 40% in contingency fees on about $6-8 million.

Marty: "He said he’d been more than compensated already by all the services​
I had provided him and his clients (gratis) which had netted him a small fortune."​

2. Marty and Monique get tired of the fight, which could go on for another decade.
Maybe they didn't "settle." Let's say they just walked away and washed their hands
of it.
Marty: "Monique Rathbun and I did not seek settlement and never settled."​

Maybe that's technically true. That's not to say he didn't offer his professional services
though.

3. Separate and totally apart from that fight . . .

Marty (in under-the-table negotiations) decides to sell his high-level knowledge of all things Scientology.​
He's free to do so. Ray would have no claim on Marty's future Work for Hire Agreements as a contractor,​
whether Marty provides his specialized and deep behind-the-scenes knowledge to make videos or​
write articles for CNN, Netflix, or the COS.​
Hubbard used the same "financial angle" in the early eighties, writing tech scripts for the COS and pocketing​
millions for his specialized talent and knowledge. A financial ploy to funnel money to LRH, first and foremost.​
How to do all this was worked out in the early eighties. Elementary, my dear Watson.​
As you know, talent in Hollywood can get paid millions and no one bats an eye. That was their thinking​
with the LRH financial funneling scheme of millions. They simply have the best accountants and lawyers​
for these kinds of shenanigans.​
Ray Jeffery simply does not have claim on future work Marty does. He only had a claim on a share of​
Monique's court case, were it to have been successful.​
Only very naive people believe Marty was doing all that heavily scripted and professionally produced​
video work -- which took a film and lighting crew and polished set -- out of simple kindness.​
Ray Jeffery got hung out to dry and there's not much he can do about it. (See #4)​
My only question is how many millions did Marty get and over what spread-out time frame (to help with taxation​
and COS justification in IRS reporting). I know the exact amount Debbie Cook got. Marty would not settle​
for less, since he was a "bigger deal" in the COS.​

4. Ray went after Marty, he claims in the Rinder podcast. Ray said there was a COS lawyer shielding Marty and he
didn't want to get into a protracted fight on his own. So he dropped it.

5. Maybe everything Marty is claiming is true, including that he did not take a settlement.

6. I believe Marty got his money, nonetheless, through a legal workaround that Ray can do nothing about. Ray got
out-played in this case. Ray still backed up the Brink's truck earlier. Do the math. There were VERY quick and large
multi-million dollar settlements.
 

statpush

Member
So why didn't he get a new lawyer? Why did he say it accomplished what he set out to do? Why didn't he say what it accomplished?
Maybe he did. And maybe that lawyer suggested they drop the case. I don't know, and neither does anyone else.

If you recall, they did get a Restraining Order against the church, which sought to end the surveillance and harassment. So, maybe that was what he sought to accomplish?

Again, its very easy for those on the side-lines, to dictate what M & M should or shouldn't do. It's a very different reality to actually sue the CoS. M & M have no obligation to sue, nor do they have to follow our advice or demands for answers. They are private citizens.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Maybe he did. And maybe that lawyer suggested they drop the case. I don't know, and neither does anyone else.

If you recall, they did get a Restraining Order against the church, which sought to end the surveillance and harassment. So, maybe that was what he sought to accomplish?

Again, its very easy for those on the side-lines, to dictate what M & M should or shouldn't do. It's a very different reality to actually sue the CoS. M & M have no obligation to sue, nor do they have to follow our advice or demands for answers. They are private citizens.
That would be a big omission in Marty's story. If he did, then I'd expect him to include somewhere in his long bloody post some sort of: "Then we hired Joe Shmoe from Acme Law Firm and he told us to drop that case because its unwinnable".

Also in that case Sceintology would then try to pin their legal costs on Marty and there would be a followup court decision about the costs. We know this didn't happen.
Then, if Scientology knew that Marty was forced to drop the anti-fair-game lawsuit, they would follow up with (surprisingly! :D) more fair game. This also didn't happen.

Either Marty cut himself some out-of-court deal with Dave, or he got somehow blackmailed by Dave into dropping the lawsuit and then making the attack videos. Perhaps it was not technically a "settlement", but there was some deal. Otherwise Scientology would not stop fair gaming Marty and Marty would not have made a 180 degree turn and produce the attack vids.

Did Marty Rathbun explain why he stopped criticizing David Miscavige, and instead only criticizing his old friends?
Of course not. His replies are usually along the lines of: "Mike&Leah& Tony Ortega & Chris Shelton are all horrible people". But he doesn't utter even one word about why he stopped criticizing Dave.

Really, Marty's story is full of holes like swiss cheese. The holes are big enough to see even from another continent. :D
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
4. Monique/Marty drop the case.
Which, in the absence of a settlement agreement, leaves them open to counter action by DM's minions.

Option 4 would have to lead to Option 2. It's been standard operating basis for decades to go after enemies and cripple them with legal costs, to discourage people from filing suit.
 

statpush

Member
That would be a big omission in Marty's story. If he did, then I'd expect him to include somewhere in his long bloody post some sort of: "Then we hired Joe Shmoe from Acme Law Firm and he told us to drop that case because its unwinnable".

Also in that case Sceintology would then try to pin their legal costs on Marty and there would be a followup court decision about the costs. We know this didn't happen.
Then, if Scientology knew that Marty was forced to drop the anti-fair-game lawsuit, they would follow up with (surprisingly! :D) more fair game. This also didn't happen.

Either Marty cut himself some out-of-court deal with Dave, or he got somehow blackmailed by Dave into dropping the lawsuit and then making the attack videos. Perhaps it was not technically a "settlement", but there was some deal. Otherwise Scientology would not stop fair gaming Marty and Marty would not have made a 180 degree turn and produce the attack vids.


Of course not. His replies are usually along the lines of: "Mike&Leah& Tony Ortega & Chris Shelton are all horrible people". But he doesn't utter even one word about why he stopped criticizing Dave.

Really, Marty's story is full of holes like swiss cheese. The holes are big enough to see even from another continent. :D
Maybe they called a truce?
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Maybe they called a truce?
A truce is a form of settlement, where each side agrees to not pursue any further litigation, in exchange for the other side doing likewise.

Not all settlements involve money changing hands.
 

freethinker

Controversial
Maybe he did. And maybe that lawyer suggested they drop the case. I don't know, and neither does anyone else.

If you recall, they did get a Restraining Order against the church, which sought to end the surveillance and harassment. So, maybe that was what he sought to accomplish?

Again, its very easy for those on the side-lines, to dictate what M & M should or shouldn't do. It's a very different reality to actually sue the CoS. M & M have no obligation to sue, nor do they have to follow our advice or demands for answers. They are private citizens.
What you say is possible except it wasn' t Jaffrey who suggested they drop the case. Marty knew exactly what they were getting into as he did the same thing from the other side when he was in the church, so to say it's a very different thing to sue the church, Marty knew what they were up against when they initiated the lawsuit, To say he didn't is just folly.

The private citizen argument is absurd when one allows his lawsuit to be printed in the newspapers and states they will take it to the end. He invested his statements into the public much the same as a famous person does and can't cry foul when they question what he did.

It isn't the sidelines that dictated what M&M should do, it was M&M who said what they were going to do to everyone who knew about it through the media. They made it public. The restraining order doesn't mean much when you drop your lawsuit. Marty would know that aslo.

M&M made everyone else a part of the lawsuit when they sought publicity for what they were doing. They sought support and got it, so to say they don't have any right for answers is to say they didn't have a right to know about it in the first place but he didn't stop that.

Now you come and post this article by Marty further putting into the public and out of the private and then say he doesn't have to answer so what was the point of the big announcement, just to say no one has a right to know after he slanders other people who are also private by your standards? He made it public and therefore created the demand for answers and the right to question his story. In other words, he started the whole saga, tells everyone he can and then says he doesn't have to explain which is hypocrisy. He publicly is slandering others so yeah, we have a right to demand answers.
 

freethinker

Controversial
Maybe they called a truce?
What has been the usual response to a truce with the church. he knew what he was getting into before he started. Remember Squirrel Busters?
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Which, in the absence of a settlement agreement, leaves them open to counter action by DM's minions.

Option 4 would have to lead to Option 2. It's been standard operating basis for decades to go after enemies and cripple them with legal costs, to discourage people from filing suit.
That's precisely what I'm getting at.

Now you come and post this article by Marty further putting into the public and out of the private and then say he doesn't have to answer so what was the point of the big announcement, just to say no one has a right to know after he slanders other people who are also private by your standards? He made it public and therefore created the demand for answers and the right to question his story. In other words, he started the whole saga, tells everyone he can and then says he doesn't have to explain which is hypocrisy. He publicly is slandering others so yeah, we have a right to demand answers.
I think we should all thank statpush for posting the link to Marty's post. I think given all the plot-holes and the sidewinder-round-about way Marty is trying to describe the case we can all infer what is he trying to hide.
Thanks Statpush for helping to lay bare Marty's schemes.
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Addendum: Marty, let me tell ya' somethin' right now: don't try to go toe to toe with an ex-INV analyst. We were both trained to look past people's BS and go for the facts.
Just curious. Who is the "we" you're talkin' about?

We have two on the message board now? :whistle:
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Just curious. Who is the "we" you're talkin' about?

We have two on the message board now? :whistle:
"We" as in both me and Marty. I thought that would be self-explanatory.

... or were you thinking that me and Marty are the same person? :bleh:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
"We" as in both me and Marty. I thought that would be self-explanatory.
No, I thought maybe you were referring to @statpush, who is very trained in those dark arts, as well, AFAIK.
Both of you have been using your invest powers to slice and dice this topic pretty well on the thread.

Having only been a public, I really don't have the background to keep up. :coolwink:
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Remember that this was not Marty's lawsuit. Ray Jeffries was not Marty's lawyer.

Let's just take what Marty is saying about Ray trying to work a settlement deal at face value.

Ray has been instructed by his client that there will be no settlement and that no such offer should be pursued.

Ray wants to settle - he knows it will be a long slog if it goes to trial.

Ray tells M&M CO$ is making noises about settling. M&M stand firm, Ray sees that Marty is standing in the way so tries to marginalize him. Marty is pissed off about this (as he says Ray was trying to drive a wedge between M&M)

Marty sidesteps and talks to somebody on opposite side and finds out there is no such offer to settle.

This blows up in Ray's face - and he gets fired.

Ortega and everyone else jumps on Marty and Mosie, bashing them. This is in early 2016. Marty is sick of the piling on. Sick of what he sees as the same cultish behavior in the anti side he starts to criticize.

Scn sees all this and reaches out to Marty offering him the opportunity to do the videos for a very nice sum (plus I'm sure it was aware of Aftermath's filming and wanted to counter it.) So Marty carries on in his hired "consultant" gig. (1st video came out in June 2017 -- a year and a half after the suit was dropped. 1st episode of Aftermath: Nov 2017)

The recent podcast with Leah, Mike and Ray brought him back to tell his side.

That's what I'm seeing.

Marty's looking out for Marty. He's done with Scn and he's done with anti-scn. He's been burned by both and is speaking his mind.
 
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