False flag operations and fake personas

Karakorum

Well-known member
My question is why does Mike owe YOU any answers? FBI, certainly, and, according to Mike, he has. Police, certainly, and according to Mike, he has.

YOU? Why do you deserve anything? Yet YOU demand he MUST tell you everything or "guilty!"

That's my question: Why must Mike respond to you? Really, why?
I'm in no way special in this regard, I'm just like every other ex-scientologist and I do not claim special status. I do not consider Mike owes me anything that he doesn't owe all other exers. He doesn't owe us a detailed explanation and in turn do not owe him unconditional trust. But the latter should not come without the former.

I'm under the impression that you are asking me to give Mike unconditional trust despite the issues I outlined in the post above. I do not see a good reason to do so.

There's a difference between being guilty and not being given full trust. I think you have missed this distinction that I make.
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
Why must Mike respond to you?
If he's an FBI-Agent - he should be a professional liar!
If he's a scientologist he should speak the truth!
You can turn it around:
If he's honest - he might be a scientologist . . .
If he's a liar - he might be FBI, CIA or any other criminal club . . .
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
The question remains why Mike does not address these issues in depth
SORRY to just walk in from Southern France - I have the question to all of you american scientologists - why almost EVERYTHING we address in Europe, is NOT addressed, even NOT IS'ed in the US? Looks like you are living in a different universe . . . ?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
why almost EVERYTHING we address in Europe, is NOT addressed, even NOT IS'ed in the US?
Like what? Mention a few things or clarify please.
I'm sincerely curious what you mean.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
SORRY to just walk in from Southern France - I have the question to all of you american scientologists - why almost EVERYTHING we address in Europe, is NOT addressed, even NOT IS'ed in the US? Looks like you are living in a different universe . . . ?
Well, I was inside scietology in the US, but now I live in eastern Europe. So I think I've seen both sides of the picture.

In my opinion: USA handles small, private enterprises better than Europe. I think it also handles corruption better (but corruption is a problem everywhere to some extent).
Europe manages crime and safety much better than the US. Education is handled FAR better here. If I stayed in the US, I would have remained a bus driver at best for the rest of my life.

Healthcare and the justice system is a mixed bag on both sides of the pond.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
My question is why does Mike owe YOU any answers? FBI, certainly, and, according to Mike, he has. Police, certainly, and according to Mike, he has.

YOU? Why do you deserve anything? Yet YOU demand he MUST tell you everything or "guilty!"

That's my question: Why must Mike respond to you? Really, why?
.
Excellent point.

Looking at the never-ending stream of innuendo, assumptions, shaming and finger-pointing that karakorum engages in, let's enter additional evidentiary "exhibits" into this Inquisitional Trial that he/she continuously runs and pretends to be the judge of:

Karakorum posted: "All I am saying is that there are too many unanswered questions. This combined with Mike's former post prevents me from trusting Mike 100%."

- - FACT: By Karakorum's own voluminous posts boasting about his/her own executive continental level "investigations" post, he/she was one of the major gears in the very same investigations machine as OSA and COB. Karakorum carried out Hubbard's sociopathic "justice" investigations and "ethics gradients". So, why is that poster so obsessed with another Sea Org member's "undisclosed crimes" in the identical organized crime racket?
- - FACT: Karakorum continuously blames people (like Mike Rinder) because they were a bit further "uplines" than karakorum was. However, they both enforced Hubbard's/COB's crazy & cruel cult crap on others.

Both Karakorum and Rinder and COB and Hubbard (and anyone else on staff or enabling staff by being paying public) all applied the identical perverse tech, disconnections, fair game, et al. What difference does it make if someone ran the mimeo machine that printed the declare/disconnection or whether they were the person disconnecting? What difference would it make if someone's sphere of activity was labeled "OSA" or "ETHICS OFFICER" or "GUARDIAN" or "CONTINENTAL INVESTIGATIONS" or "CMO" or RTC" or "COM EV CONVENING AUTHORITY" or any other abstraction. They are all the same organization, all doing exactly the same thing.

Karakorum tries to deceptively sell the corrupt misdirection that he/she is somehow different than the other ethics/justice enforcers of the cult of Scientology. Nobody to my knowledge has ever demanded an investigation and demanded confessions and demanded reparations from Karakorum for his/her role in Scn. Yet that individual assumes some bizarre ethical superiority and altitude over Mike Rinder. Ludicrous.

The identically perverse tech was being applied by BOTH of them. And everyone else in the cult too. How is Rinder somehow "more guilty" than Karakorum? This targeted black pr campaign against Rinder by ANOTHER ethics/justice executive is a hypocritical hoax. "Oh no, I had nothing to do with those concentration camp genocides, I was just a simple train conductor and I wasn't even the person who closed the box car doors when all my passengers boarded!"


BOOMERANG-BULLSHIT QUOTE OF THE YEAR:
"This combined with Mike's former post prevents me from trusting Mike 100%." - karakorum.

If Karakorum's brilliant investigations tech is to be trusted, why isn't this also true?
"This combined with Karakorum's former post prevents me from trusting Karakorum 100%"

.

.
 
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Kalle

troubleshooter
Like what? Mention a few things or clarify please.
I'm sincerely curious what you mean.
Hi Lisbeth,
I joined in Munich/Germany in May 75, we were the best class IV-Org on the planet.
In 1976 I moved to AOSH EU in Cop to become a wordclearer, and to find out WHY Munich staff (180) were always sick after missions from EU or from the US. In summer 1976 I arrived at United Churches (later called FLAG), as I wanted to become the first AUDITOR class XII in Europe. Four weeks later I was STOPPED in the middle of linecharge while on TR 0 and going exterior . . .
FLAG-Tech was 95 percent corrupted back then, only exception was the Qual-Sec who called me the FALSE tarfget for correction. I could not manage to complete my TR's Course ever since.
So I dug deep into investigation of my own . . .
And the things I discovered could be summarized in a complete criminal takeover of the church of Scientology by the CIA starting back in 1972.
Does that "fit" with your reality?
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
USA handles small, private enterprises better than Europe.
YES Karakorum, if you are a business-woman - life is much much easier in the US - I had the most fantastic time in 1969 south of SF in Cal in a little village called Capitola near Santa Cruz . . .
But I was talking about SCIO, and not about the WOG-life.
I came from a medical family, and I was supposed to follow my grandfather and my dad as a medical doctor, I think it's called physician in the US. My dad committed suicide in 1963 - and I decided to explore that tragedy - BEFORE II would start my studies in medicine . . .
But NO ONE in the medical field had any clue on the CAUSE of depression - so after 12 years of wasting time without getting any answer, I met a strange young man in Munich, who seemed to know the answer to my question and said: "Failed purpose" and I did NOT understand, what that meant, and asked him HOW he had come to that conclusion, and he said he was a scientologist . . .
I had a huge comm-lag, as Scientology had a bad reputation in Germany in 1975, and he looked poor & hungry to me - but 14 days later it hit me: FAILED PURPOSE had finally solved my quest for understanding the depression of my dad, so I decided to have a very close look into that miracle-church . . .
That is how my adveture began . . .
 

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
YES Karakorum, if you are a business-woman - life is much much easier in the US - I had the most fantastic time in 1969 south of SF in Cal in a little village called Capitola near Santa Cruz . . .
But I was talking about SCIO, and not about the WOG-life.
I came from a medical family, and I was supposed to follow my grandfather and my dad as a medical doctor, I think it's called physician in the US. My dad committed suicide in 1963 - and I decided to explore that tragedy - BEFORE II would start my studies in medicine . . .
But NO ONE in the medical field had any clue on the CAUSE of depression - so after 12 years of wasting time without getting any answer, I met a strange young man in Munich, who seemed to know the answer to my question and said: "Failed purpose" and I did NOT understand, what that meant, and asked him HOW he had come to that conclusion, and he said he was a scientologist . . .
I had a huge comm-lag, as Scientology had a bad reputation in Germany in 1975, and he looked poor & hungry to me - but 14 days later it hit me: FAILED PURPOSE had finally solved my quest for understanding the depression of my dad, so I decided to have a very close look into that miracle-church . . .
That is how my adveture began . . .
So now you are on this message board, what are your objectives here, if you don't mind me asking.
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
So now you are on this message board, what are your objectives here, if you don't mind me asking.
Hi Stratty,
no, I don't mind any question - it's the opposite - questions are the professional way to make friends & to help.

If i can help, I'll hang around for a while - if you can help me, I'll appreciate that also!
 

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Hi Stratty,
no, I don't mind any question - it's the opposite - questions are the professional way to make friends & to help.

If i can help, I'll hang around for a while - if you can help me, I'll appreciate that also!
What do you think we need your help with, and how could I be of help to you?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Kalle, you must be about 75-80 years old per your own claims
of life experience. But you look to only be 38-40 in your photo.

What's the secret?

If you arrive on the message board from France and begin
to back-hand us here, don't expect much conviviality.
I have the question to all of you american scientologists - why almost EVERYTHING we address in Europe,
is NOT addressed, even NOT IS'ed in the US? Looks like you are living in a different universe . . . ?
You never answered: What did Europe address? And what is not addressed in the US?

I know it's late in France, but not that late. You have time.
 
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Bill

Well-known member
I'm in no way special in this regard, I'm just like every other ex-scientologist and I do not claim special status. I do not consider Mike owes me anything that he doesn't owe all other exers. He doesn't owe us a detailed explanation and in turn do not owe him unconditional trust. But the latter should not come without the former.

I'm under the impression that you are asking me to give Mike unconditional trust despite the issues I outlined in the post above. I do not see a good reason to do so.

There's a difference between being guilty and not being given full trust. I think you have missed this distinction that I make.
Here in America, we have a weird concept called "innocent until proven guilty". You have no proof of ANYTHING so "he's guilty". Your total lack of any proof makes him "guilty". Nice.
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
Kalle, you must be about 75-80 years old per your own claims
of life experience. But you look to only be 38-40 in your photo.

What's the secret?

If you arrive on the message board from France and begin
to back-hand us here, don't expect much conviviality.
You never answered: What did Europe address? And what is not addressed in the US?
So I will give it a try for you!

I was born on April, 28 in 1947 - that makes my body 73 years old - the photograph is older than 2003, because my mother was still alive then, probably 2002, so I can change it, if you care . . .

There is no secret, as the picture shows me at 56 or so - is THAT a crime in the US, where people have their faces pulled to the ears . . . ?

That one I don't get: "to back-hand us here, don't expect much conviviality." but it sounds like you feel offended ???
So correct me - I havn't been in the US for an eternity, but we say in Germany: "dogs that bark - don't bite!"

"What did Europe address? And what is not addressed in the US?" I do not mean "Europe" - I talk about a tiny little group of hard-core ex scientologists that try to understand how scientology could be beaten to death . . . ? We ask lots of questions and it all boils down to a WAKO-like war from US-SECRET-SERVICE . . .

In Germany the people loose their existence, if they are scientologists, you can't work for the government as a teacher and all this. We learned that three american OT's were in fact CIA-Agents that in an act of treason sold the tech to the CIA in 1972, where at Stanford Research Institute SECRET investigations looked at EXTERIORISATION- techniques for military purpose and spying and that type of criminal stuff . . .
It looks like they found out that scientology works - so ever after the CIA has the monopoly on the "hot" stuff - and the church of Scientology delivers highly controlled & perfectly castrated tech, that looks & sounds great, but does NOT really work . . . So customers get carefully needled into howling anger on purpose . . .
Look at what the US DEEP STATE is doing with the elected president . . .
The same crooks that producud SARS-CoV-2 & Covid-19 in US & Chinese military labs from Corona + Sequences from the HIV Aids Virus in a SECRET BIO-WAR-ATTACK to sell their gene-altering vaccines to sterilize the population as already done in the past in India & Kenia by eugenic psychopath KiLL BiLL Gates, as we call this criminal in Germany. Let me stop here, as I do NOT want to overwhelm ANYBODY. If you doubt anything I have written, tell me what, and ask for PROOF, and I will help. Good night everybody, Europe is going to sleep . . .
 
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Bill

Well-known member
I'm in no way special in this regard, I'm just like every other ex-scientologist and I do not claim special status. I do not consider Mike owes me anything that he doesn't owe all other exers. He doesn't owe us a detailed explanation and in turn do not owe him unconditional trust. But the latter should not come without the former.

I'm under the impression that you are asking me to give Mike unconditional trust despite the issues I outlined in the post above. I do not see a good reason to do so.

There's a difference between being guilty and not being given full trust. I think you have missed this distinction that I make.
WAIT a minute. "Trust"? I'm asking you to "give Mike unconditional trust"? What?!

Are you loaning Mike money? Is he dating your daughter? Is he giving you stock advice? "Trust"? :roflmao:

I have never asked you to "give Mike unconditional trust". You are living in some bizzaro world where whatever you hallucinate is "true".

Nothing was ever said about "trust" you fool. You want to condemn a person on accusation and complete lack of fact, that's your problem -- maybe that's the way they do things there in Eastern Europe. I consider it wrong. No trust involved just common decency.

What I see is someone doing a tremendous job of exposing COS's abuses. That's a fact. What you choose to see is your problem not Mike's and certainly not mine.

I'm an ex-Scientologist who has seen a lot of damage by the "church" ... but I don't demand that anyone take on the "church" as an enemy. Are you demanding Mike "do more" to attack the "church"? --- so what have YOU done to attack the "church" and put yourself in harms way?
 

Kalle

troubleshooter
I believe this picture is only 4 years old, from Oct. 22, 2016 - but don't crucify me if it's not . . .
 
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