excerpt from "Undeliverable Letters from the Underground"

Barile

Well-known member
Dear Nina,
I imagine you will be surprised to hear from me. When last we spoke, we were dangling our legs over the creek at
the corner of University Ave and SW 13th Street, in Gainesville. It seems you forgot to mention that there was an alligator
in the creek, making his way toward me, but I assume that is because you grew up with them in the neighborhood, and didn't
think much of it really. That was 52 years ago, you were 21 and I was 19.

If memory serves, I told you that I was going to go to California and I asked if you wanted to go, which of course implied
you would be willing to leave your husband, and strike out on an odyssey with a soon to be unemployed musician, with no
contacts or prospects at this mythical destination. You explained that what you really wanted was to make "a million dollars
in the real estate market" and that was your hope and dream, so ... you couldn't just leave all that behind. I was saddened but
the tone of your voice suggested that you knew this might be a longshot. No harm, no foul. Just to let you know,
I did get there on March 7, 1972. In retrospect, considering what my life was like in the next 10 or so years, I think you chose wisely.
I don't know how you feel about your decision now, but I see from a few Google searches that you finally did divorce your husband,
remarried and had a daughter... who makes and sells candles. Congratulations, by the way, and I'm so sorry that real estate did not play out as you'd hoped. I doubt you would have stuck around, considering the desultory chain of events that described my life until 1980.

You see, I didn't mention why I wanted to go to California, because to be honest, I did not consciously know at that moment. I had not yet even heard of or done the Scientology Communication course at the mission in Winter Garden. It was not planned, and was not yet even a seed of an idea. That, I think, is rather strange. These events were all backwards. I wanted to go to California, for unknown reasons, because of
an experience I would have months in the future, that would be the motivation to make the journey. I can only wonder what
events unfolded in your life in the next few years, that you may have chalked up to 'synchronicity'.

Speaking of synchronicities, I'm curious how many times you've thought about that walk we took at the Millhopper site, that one sunny, summer morning in 1971. You may have tried to remember what happened over the years, I've tried very hard to make sense of it. We never compared notes and we never spoke about it, not a single word. I think I can say with great confidence that you were terrified and I was left with an inability to even ask the question, "what the fuck just happened?". Just to let you know, I've never been able to talk to anyone about it, when I could remember it at all. I suppose some would call it a contact experience. As I recall, your family was quite a bit more religious than mine, so your take on it, in retrospect, could have bordered on a "burning fucking bush episode". That is a matter of perspective, to be sure. Over the years, I knew the experience was there, but just as soon as I'd start to try to retrace the events in memory.. I would oddly turn my attention to something completely mundane, and just like that, it was again forgotten.

That changed in 2014. You know how sometimes you get an incoming idea, like a message from a friend like, "hey, call me." ? You think, oh, that's a great idea, haven't spoken to them in decades. Well, one day, I got such a message, and I thought, oh... that must be a thing, and even if it wasn't, it was still a great idea. I went straight to searching for a phone number or any contact information. I was completely dumbfounded to immediately find that my friend had passed exactly one year earlier, almost to the day. There were no further messages or spontaneous ideas that seemed to eminate from somewhere other than between my ears. I was frustrated and a bit "lossey", and could not dismiss this. The simple question, "Why?" bounced around. I went as far as to make contact with someone I'd never heard of, that had interviewed him in New York. She had an interest in this sort of thing and over the course of many emails and phone calls, we discussed, reminisced and exchanged stories.

As unrelated as it seems, the "incident" started to come back to full memory, and I started to think about you and what you could have thought about it. To let you know, I'm writing a book for my son who will be 25 soon, so that he has some history of all the things his father experienced, and did, that somehow never got talked about during the process of him growing up. I figured he had an image of me as an engineer, why spoil that with stories about sleeping in my van in Hollywood when I was 20. There is a chapter devoted to you and that experience. I'm still working on that chapter, because something of that nature is very difficult to describe without sounding completely batshit crazy. I think he will understand eventually, and I wonder if one day, something like that might find it's way to him. If so, he won't be able to bemoan the fact that I never told him about stuff like that. I think I have described you just as you were, which I can never forget.

All things considered, we shared an experience that few have had, and almost no one would believe.
Big Love,
D
 

Barile

Well-known member
What was this contact event?
I imagine you want details... time, form, place event.
Here's the problem. As I mentioned, I've never been able to discuss this in exact detail,
because the very nature of these things, seems to be self-invalidating. The absurdity of the details, are very painful to discuss.
Listen to any of the accounts available from witnesses of very close encounters. You will perhaps find some points within reason, but even for myself, the context, once the story gets rolling, is outside the realm of believability. Compared to some stories that are well known, ours was non-harmful and even somewhat respectful of our limited human intelligence... it would seem. I always listen for any key similarities of other's
stories, and have found a few told by just average man-on-the street experiencers, that were either very similar, or identical, but only very fine details, not the experience as a whole. As a whole, none of the stories helped me understand anything that we experienced.

There is nothing to learn from my experience, unless you were there. As I said, I'm writing it specifically for my son, because I have
a feeling, one day, something very similar will present itself to him, and I want him to know, he is not alone and perhaps suggest what I would do, if I had it to do all over again. That is ever so easy to say, in retrospect.

You have people that will believe anything at all, and to some of them, it is a matter of entertainment, curiosity or "cool" factor. Pretty sure we've all met people like this. Quite sure.

Then there are people who will believe nothing at all, or nothing in the absence of hard physical evidence. That probably would have been me before this.

I can only speculate that it was not random or accidental. It was too personal.

I've tried to tell the story to some well known scientists who are obsessed with the subject. They have no fucking idea either, only speculation, theory, "Jung said", or any number of pet, self-validating biases. My conclusion was, 'theory' it up all you like, you have no idea either and you sound just as crazy as McKenna's mechanical elves.

All that said, if I have a change of heart, I might publish just that one story, somewhere, but under a pseudonym and not here. At this point in my life, I couldn't stand the criticism, or correction from "experts" or those folks who make a living from the "disclosure" scam. It is a scam. We may never know, and that would be my monolith to bear.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
I imagine you want details... time, form, place event.
Here's the problem. As I mentioned, I've never been able to discuss this in exact detail,
because the very nature of these things, seems to be self-invalidating. The absurdity of the details, are very painful to discuss.
Listen to any of the accounts available from witnesses of very close encounters. You will perhaps find some points within reason, but even for myself, the context, once the story gets rolling, is outside the realm of believability. Compared to some stories that are well known, ours was non-harmful and even somewhat respectful of our limited human intelligence... it would seem. I always listen for any key similarities of other's
stories, and have found a few told by just average man-on-the street experiencers, that were either very similar, or identical, but only very fine details, not the experience as a whole. As a whole, none of the stories helped me understand anything that we experienced.

There is nothing to learn from my experience, unless you were there. As I said, I'm writing it specifically for my son, because I have
a feeling, one day, something very similar will present itself to him, and I want him to know, he is not alone and perhaps suggest what I would do, if I had it to do all over again. That is ever so easy to say, in retrospect.

You have people that will believe anything at all, and to some of them, it is a matter of entertainment, curiosity or "cool" factor. Pretty sure we've all met people like this. Quite sure.

Then there are people who will believe nothing at all, or nothing in the absence of hard physical evidence. That probably would have been me before this.

I can only speculate that it was not random or accidental. It was too personal.

I've tried to tell the story to some well known scientists who are obsessed with the subject. They have no fucking idea either, only speculation, theory, "Jung said", or any number of pet, self-validating biases. My conclusion was, 'theory' it up all you like, you have no idea either and you sound just as crazy as McKenna's mechanical elves.

All that said, if I have a change of heart, I might publish just that one story, somewhere, but under a pseudonym and not here. At this point in my life, I couldn't stand the criticism, or correction from "experts" or those folks who make a living from the "disclosure" scam. It is a scam. We may never know, and that would be my monolith to bear.
That's an interesting if rather cryptic story and follow up. haha Thanks for sharing.

I think some experiences are okay to share while others might be kept to oneself. An example of the former would be people having an experience of satori, a temporary experience of what is generally described as Enlightenment where one feels at one and at peace with the universe as it is and the sense of current lifetime being essentially unimportant. Many people having this experience join groups like non-dualism where they attempt to illuminate and live in that experience. Non-dualism and some sects of Zen Buddhism give some credence to the possibility of Instant Enlightenment.

An example of the latter might be someone having the very real experience of some form of Divine Presence. That might be kept to oneself and not shared publicly so as to not devalue it.

Above you mentioned the burning bush which maybe gives me a general context of what you experienced.

I'm not a bible reader so I looked up the burning bush to get the story and here it is. It isn't long.

 
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Zertel

Well-known member
One time on a scn blog someone was sharing a very real experience he had of being in or at a place which was different than any place on earth. He saw people walking around but the buildings were different than those here on earth and he described some other unusual features. It was so real to him that he was actually quite rattled about it, almost like he was asking for someone to give him answer. I thought of replying to him that some people in auditing might occasionally if rarely have that type of vivid experience but I didn't have anything specific to say so I didn't reply. He was still rational so he probably eventually settled down.
 
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Barile

Well-known member
That's an interesting if rather cryptic story and follow up. haha Thanks for sharing.

I think
ya... no. I was wondering if Nina had viewed it in the context of a 'religious' experience due to her Southern roots and family history.
I could not know, as we were apparently unable to converse about it, neither at the moment, or subsequently. As for me...
I could never interpret something that way... I just don't see things that way, but I can see how that archetype might be one take on it
for someone with that background. I used the metaphor to suggest a common explanation. There was no mistaking this for anything
of that sort. Not to be a Debby Downer, but I would need a nun smacking me with a yardstick in Sunday school to even consider
that I was having a religious experience.

I did mention the absurdity of most such stories, assuming that it was obvious to people.... which is probably an incorrect assumption.

Here's a channel overflowing with such eye-witness accounts.... pick one, any one to see what I meant.


( prime example: )

Meanwhile, it's not that the pc doesn't want to talk about it, it's just that he knows the futility of it. Apologies implied.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
ya... no. I was wondering if Nina had viewed it in the context of a 'religious' experience due to her Southern roots and family history.
I could not know, as we were apparently unable to converse about it, neither at the moment, or subsequently. As for me...
I could never interpret something that way... I just don't see things that way, but I can see how that archetype might be one take on it
for someone with that background. I used the metaphor to suggest a common explanation. There was no mistaking this for anything
of that sort. Not to be a Debby Downer, but I would need a nun smacking me with a yardstick in Sunday school to even consider
that I was having a religious experience.

I did mention the absurdity of most such stories, assuming that it was obvious to people.... which is probably an incorrect assumption.

Here's a channel overflowing with such eye-witness accounts.... pick one, any one to see what I meant.


( prime example: )

Meanwhile, it's not that the pc doesn't want to talk about it, it's just that he knows the futility of it. Apologies implied.
The general context I was referring to is a mystical experience so large that it defies logical explanation. My second guess was a close encounter.

The guy I mentioned in my other post might have been questioning if he really belonged on this planet or the one he "visited". Scientific realism might put it all in the basket of complex hallucinations or lucid dreaming. Yeah I know, your experience was different. That's what they all say.



Hey - I'm sure you can take that as a joke. Lol

Years ago I went to a small psychic faire where the lead speaker was a guy who had experienced a well documented and publicized haunting. I chatted with him after his talk and mentioned that I had once been a scientologist so I think he realized I wouldn't be dismissive or hypercritical about his haunting.
 
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Barile

Well-known member
My second guess was a close encounter.
I think I mentioned that. Some people see a tiny dot in the sky and declare we are not alone in the universe, other people sit at the counter at Denny's and talk to themselves in a pocket mirror propped up on a salt shaker ( who remembers "Mirror Man" in Hollywood? ). To a large extent, both factions might as well be cousins, in my view. I can differentiate between the NDE I had ( quite a bit mystical seeming, but still not 'religious'... did I mention I reject all religious interpretations on general principle? ) and a large object 20 feet off the ground, motionless, 30 yards away.. essentially not fully materialized and trying to telepathically invite me to have tea... or whatever. I'd have been happy with the explanation that I was "seeing things", were it not for the fact that Nina saw it first and pointed it out. There were many details, sensations, and the odd phenomenon that in remembering it, I can only recall that it seemed it was happening at dusk, even though it was before noon on a sunny day. It's the details that make it sound like complete hallucination, and so, when I hear crazy ass stories that sound like really shitty sci-fi,
I leave open the possibility that some of those stories that are documented, were "as experienced" and language has failed miserably to describe.
Sounds crazy... I know. Perhaps it's supposed to sound crazy, or again... we don't have a vocabulary or the right sense organ to grasp.
If you want crazy sounding, look up Jack Sarfatti, theoretical physicist ( Jack Sarfatti - Wikipedia ). If you poke around long enough, you will find his own personal "contact experience" story, making mine look fairly pedestrian. I've heard him describe it, and as expected, it was beyond crazy....
oh... here
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
This guy relates a rather amazing story of his encounters with "tall whites" while stationed at Nellis Air Force Base in the mid-60's.

 

cakemaker

Well-known member
I think I mentioned that. Some people see a tiny dot in the sky and declare we are not alone in the universe, other people sit at the counter at Denny's and talk to themselves in a pocket mirror propped up on a salt shaker ( who remembers "Mirror Man" in Hollywood? ). To a large extent, both factions might as well be cousins, in my view. I can differentiate between the NDE I had ( quite a bit mystical seeming, but still not 'religious'... did I mention I reject all religious interpretations on general principle? ) and a large object 20 feet off the ground, motionless, 30 yards away.. essentially not fully materialized and trying to telepathically invite me to have tea... or whatever. I'd have been happy with the explanation that I was "seeing things", were it not for the fact that Nina saw it first and pointed it out. There were many details, sensations, and the odd phenomenon that in remembering it, I can only recall that it seemed it was happening at dusk, even though it was before noon on a sunny day. It's the details that make it sound like complete hallucination, and so, when I hear crazy ass stories that sound like really shitty sci-fi,
So interesting.
There have been a few completely credible people in my life, persons who I have trusted completely, relate unexplained experiences to me.
I don't know what the explanations could be but I do know that the experience really must have happened.
Whether it's something from this universe, something from another universe or something else entirely, I guess we'll find out someday. :)
 

Barile

Well-known member
This guy relates a rather amazing story of his encounters with "tall whites" while stationed at Nellis Air Force Base in the mid-60's.

I've seen this video before. No way to know, not having been there. I suspect it's not just one "thing".
His story has none of the absurd characteristics that are so common.
Also... I don't get the sense that he is at a loss for words anywhere. Hard to know what happened with him.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
I think I mentioned that. Some people see a tiny dot in the sky and declare we are not alone in the universe, other people sit at the counter at Denny's and talk to themselves in a pocket mirror propped up on a salt shaker ( who remembers "Mirror Man" in Hollywood? ). To a large extent, both factions might as well be cousins, in my view. I can differentiate between the NDE I had ( quite a bit mystical seeming, but still not 'religious'... did I mention I reject all religious interpretations on general principle? ) and a large object 20 feet off the ground, motionless, 30 yards away.. essentially not fully materialized and trying to telepathically invite me to have tea... or whatever. I'd have been happy with the explanation that I was "seeing things", were it not for the fact that Nina saw it first and pointed it out. There were many details, sensations, and the odd phenomenon that in remembering it, I can only recall that it seemed it was happening at dusk, even though it was before noon on a sunny day. It's the details that make it sound like complete hallucination, and so, when I hear crazy ass stories that sound like really shitty sci-fi,
I leave open the possibility that some of those stories that are documented, were "as experienced" and language has failed miserably to describe.
Sounds crazy... I know. Perhaps it's supposed to sound crazy, or again... we don't have a vocabulary or the right sense organ to grasp.
If you want crazy sounding, look up Jack Sarfatti, theoretical physicist ( Jack Sarfatti - Wikipedia ). If you poke around long enough, you will find his own personal "contact experience" story, making mine look fairly pedestrian. I've heard him describe it, and as expected, it was beyond crazy....
oh... here
I looked again and on your original post you wrote, "I suppose some would call it a contact experience." which I skipped over or misread so I missed the main point. Oh well - conversation on social media. I'm talking about transcendental experiences and your talking about alien encounters. Lol
 
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Barile

Well-known member
That makes it sound scary!
No, no. There is plenty of time to beat your head against the wall, looking for answers to possibly irrelevant questions.
Also... it just messes up the wall, and then you have to repaint the whole room, because you know those repainted patches will never
match, to say nothing of the terror of painting the ceiling. the horror....
 

Barile

Well-known member

cakemaker

Well-known member
No, no. There is plenty of time to beat your head against the wall, looking for answers to possibly irrelevant questions.
Also... it just messes up the wall, and then you have to repaint the whole room, because you know those repainted patches will never
match, to say nothing of the terror of painting the ceiling. the horror....

You speak in riddles!
Are you a sphinx? :)
 

Barile

Well-known member
She's going to tell you to wrap it up.
well... she's dead.
I hope you're satisfied.
can't we just go back to bashing cults and giving our perspective about where the fuck is Shelly?
for that matter, where the fuck is David? things used to be so much simpler...
you know... there is a baking thread. nobody even said thank you.
 
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