Ex Scientologist

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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Thanks!

That was such a thought-provoking & richly illuminating lecture on OT—at so many levels!

I found it to be quite idiotic, But, at the same time densely packed with moments that quite intelligently (and unintentionally) pulled the curtain back and exposed the "Wizard" in every OT's mind that is working the levers and smoke machines.

There is so much in that video to unpack, I think I'll give it some time and maybe watch it again and see if I can find a "unifying theory" that pulls it all together as to why Scientologists are such goofy liars and self-deception experts. Maybe by slow cooking it, in a couple days I'll find some gems and export said "scientific breakthrough" over on the "Top Super Stupid Moments in Scientology" thread. We shall see. . .


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Veda

Well-known member
I'll just plunk this here, for background.

I only watched the second video, after watching a little of the first.



Referring only to the second video, I'd have to disagree.




At the beginning up to 1:44ish. Evasive, and visibly uncomfortable, response when asked about being exterior and moving objects in the physical universe:

"We are not into being in a circus. This is not the point."

Uh huh.

Link to the 1970 Grade Chart. This is the chart that was prominently displayed on walls and in magazines throughout Scientology's period of greatest expansion, and the beginning of "big league" money-getting.

To paraphrase Hubbard from the OEC volumes: "We can demand total discipline because we can deliver total freedom."

Every level of this Grade Chart was sold by registrars. People were recruited into Scientology, and the Sea Org, and some even sent their children to be servants for L. Ron Hubbard, because they believed what this Grade Chart, and what Hubbard over many years, told them.

The top level, under ability gained, was: "Ability to be at cause knowingly and at will over thought, life, form, matter, energy, space, and time, subjective and objective."

Under ability lost was: "Freedom from inability to be totally free and at total cause as a being."

This was not presented as a hypothetical. It was sold as fact. This was when Scientology established itself.

This proprietor of the Dror Center spent fourteen years on solo NOTs. Fourteen years hooked up to an e-meter, running L. Ron Hubbard's case, and, apparently, he's delighted with the result, but that result does not include exterior of the body with perception of the physical universe (usually assumed to be attained on old OT 6, or at least on one of the Ls), or the "ability gained" of old OT 8.

All these levels and actions were sold by Scientology Inc. fifty years ago. (Although old OT 8 didn't exist - there was no actual OT level 8 - Scientologists were told it existed, and it was sold.)

More from the video:

"I know some people who have really OT powers, able to move things in the physical universe..."

At this point there's a cut off, an edit. The person is obviously uncomfortable. And that's good, because it shows that the person has not completely audited away her conscience, and is uncomfortable when lying. Then the video continues, after the time out/edit:

[Said dismissively] "So the way to put it like in a circus. OK, I'm a clown, I'm a magician..."

Then, finally, "It can be done. Of course it can be done."

The another cut/edit.

I can remember a short period at the inception of NOTs, during a time when Hubbard was off lines (hiding from the Feds and various subpoena servers), and things were a little loose organizationally, when there were "tech" people at AOLA who would confide that "the old OT levels didn't work, BUT now that we have NOTs!, it will work!"

(It was also briefly OK to say that old [1969] Standard Dianetics didn't really erase somatics, because now there was New Era Dianetics, and even NOTs, to erase the somatics.)

Well, we've had NOTs for over forty years...

The contrast between Dror, and its fellow LRH Bridge sellers of today, and at least some of those auditing after the schism of the 1980s, is that there were some, during the 1980s, who were trying to be honest.

Dror, and the others, are selling a defective product, and lying about it.

They know, from the perspective of 2021, that they're selling a defective Bridge to OT.

Yet it doesn't matter, because having done the Scientology OT levels is more important than actually attaining the promised End Results of the OT levels.

The reason for doing Scientology is to have done Scientology.

That doesn't mean that all auditing is a waste of time, but it does mean that Scientologists are being dishonest when they assure their clients that, with Scientology, referring to OT, "It can be done. Of course, it can be done."

Apparently, selling a partial non-bridge is not good business model.

The point remains the same. It's the doing of Scientology, not the attaining of Scientology's stated objective, which is "OT," that is the raison d'etre.

Hubbard is revered as, essentially, the greatest man who ever walked the Earth, and "LRH tech" is considered to be fantastic. Questions about why there are no Scientology OTs are "handled" with standard Scientology evasion.

And Lamberger - 14 years on solo NOTs - should be pretty darned OT, so ?

One big selling point is that, if a person gets enough processing, he won't be re-"implanted between lives" after he dies. No dissatisfied customers possible under those conditions.

Watched some video of Dani Lamberger and he thinks Bill Robertson was "brilliant." That, and the copious praise of Hubbard, would seem to make likely that there is some linkage between RON's Orgs and Dror Center.

Looks like Lamberger has "safe pointed" himself with a number of critics, plus he seems to be a smart businessman.

It would be nice to find an Independent Scientologist who was not nutty or evasive. There's no one who I can, in good conscience, recommend, to someone who wants auditing outside of Scientology Inc.
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Perhaps Dani is right and L. Ron Hubbard, in fact, really is:

"The greatest man that ever lived!"
How would Dani know this?

ANSWER: Because, the "greatest man that ever lived" pathologically lies to you, relentlessly defrauds you and fanatically steals all of your money and your time.

Don't worry if this sounds slightly outpointy, because a Scientologist can clay demo it for you.


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Added comments in red

Referring to the Organization:

"They managed to give Ron Hubbard a bad name, so Ron Hubbard who you and I admire, and hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived,


and created, and gave so much to us and all Mankind;
[Which Dani and Dror Center are now selling to others]


his name has become a bad name. [Which is very bad for business]


He's been vilified by the Church of Scientology, because of the terrible things that they do [We're supposed to think that Hubbard didn't do these terrible things first]

and they attribute to Ron Hubbard, like Declaring people Suppressive, Disconnection policy, and more..." [We're supposed to think that Hubbard didn't Declare people Suppressive, and that Disconnection was actually discontinued]

Dani has been out of Scientology Inc. for eight years and, apparently, has managed to "safe point" himself with Tony Ortega, and others, and we're supposed to believe he's utterly clueless on the topic of Hubbard?

Don't buy it. This appears to be a cynical business decision.

And perhaps he feels that he needs to keep the illusion going to give his life meaning.

But he must know, and his wife also knows - on some level.


Which would mean they are both willfully lying.

And how about this guy? Does he really believe this?



There are sincere people in the "Independent Scientology" field, but the long term SELLERS of BRIDGES must know better.

Years ago, at least there were some people who tried to be honest. Those people are mostly gone now.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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That's a whole lotta rhetoric. I can't wait.
(I better watch the video myself now.) :LOL:
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LOL!

As you well know, it can be very tricky watching Scientologists rhapsodize about their OT wins & powers. It looks deceptively simple, kind of like being a country kid going into the big city for the first time, and encountering one's first sidewalk THREE CUP MONTE game (aka 3 CARD MONTE)..

It looks so easy, anyone can win!

Ya gotta go back and slow the video down--again and again--until you end up at Zapruder speed, frame-by-frame analysis.

With Scientology OTs giving their miraculous wins, if you get the angle just right, you. can spot the red ball and how they switched it out to another cup while you were misdirected to look elsewhere.

Street rackets, whether Scientology or shell games are the only games (in the Mark's universe) where everyone wins. LOL



.​
 
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Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
You pulled it in. Scientology is perfect, if applied correctly it works 100% of the time...
How many times this gets talked about, I am not sure I have yet to comprehend the point fully, so I will make sentences.

As great as scientology is in helping YOU become more responsible as a being, as an entity, it accepts NO responsibility whatsoever.

Now apply this to the world:

You buy a new car, and it breaks down. You have it towed to the dealership. The service manager looks at you and says "What did YOU do?"

You have a kidney that becomes diseased and needs to be removed. The surgeon comes to you after the surgery and says "looks like we removed the wrong kidney. You will need to pay for the next surgery in advance."

You have an employee that embezzles thousands of dollars from your company. The police sends a detective, and when you tell him what happened, and you have the proof, he says "how much were you paying your employee? Were you in good exchange with him?"
 

Veda

Well-known member
LOL!

As you well know, it can be very tricky watching Scientologists rhapsodize about their OT wins & powers. It looks deceptively simple, kind of like being a country kid going into the big city for the first time, and encountering one's first sidewalk THREE CUP MONTE game (aka 3 CARD MONTE)..

It looks so easy, anyone can win!

Ya gotta go back and slow the video down--again and again--until you end up at Zapruder speed, frame-by-frame analysis.

With Scientology OTs giving their miraculous wins, if you get the angle just right, you. can spot the red ball and how they switched it out to another cup while you were misdirected to look elsewhere.

Street rackets, whether Scientology or shell games are the only games (in the Mark's universe) where everyone wins. LOL



.​

Expressing OT successes has many manifestations. Here's Tami Lemberger giving her success story after having returned from Ron's Orgs, where she had done L 10, L 11, and L 12, and also became a fully trained Ls Rundown auditor. (The Ls are super-hyped and are a big money maker. And all this auditing and training, although less costly than if done in the C of $, would still have been expensive.)

Text and Video: The Independent Scientology Dror Center in Israel announces that Tami Lemberger, their Senior C/S, has completed all of the L Rundowns and is also a fully trained L Rundowns Auditor.

Tami Lemberger: Fully Trained L Rundowns Auditor! – Dror Friends


* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

After leaving the Church with the entire Dror team in 2012, Tami did not change her priorities. At least once a year, Tami travels to Grenchen, Switzerland and continues her training and auditing at the Ron’s Org with Erica and Max Hauri.

For the last two and a half years, Tami concentrated on studying how to deliver, and receiving herself, the three amazing L Rundowns: L 11, L10 and L 12, specially developed by Ron Hubbard to boost each individuals’ OT abilities.

We are immensely proud to announce that Tami has recently completed her entire training program for delivery of the three L Rundowns. Further, she has also completed receiving these Rundowns!

Today, we would like to present to you a short video of Tami’s attest upon completing L12 Rundown. The video was shot on a smartphone, so quality is not perfect.

Enjoy watching!

* * * * * END EXCERPT* * * * *



/

So, after all this work, and the cost of purchasing the auditing and training, "nothing really happened to me," yet, "I'm very happy I did it."

This is reminiscent of "New" OT 8s expressing their delight with "New" OT 8, which is a stunningly anti-climactic and disappointing level, with an "EP" (End Phenomena), essentially, of "I don't know who I am."

('New" OT 8 Success Stories typically sound like old - circa 1970 - Comm Course Success Stories. Things like, "I am so in present time!," etc.)

But it doesn't matter "BECAUSE IT WAS FANTASTIC! IT WAS GREAT! IT WAS WONDERFUL!"

Every bit of "LRH tech," that they've ever experienced, was, somehow, FABULOUS!!!!

It has to be, since, as every Scientologist knows, one's reaction to LRH and LRH tech is a sign of where one is on the Tone Scale. It's a sign of how AWARE one is, and that one is OK. Otherwise, there's something really WRONG with the person. RED TAG!!!! :panic: :dizzy::blink:o_O:melodramatic:


"A very natural state... nothing really happened to me... stable, I'm here... I'm very happy I did it..."


And then there's another manifestation of expressing OT successes. The person knows that Ron can feel that he has completed Solo NOTs.

Dima Jitovetsky has completed Solo NOTs at the Independent Scientology Dror Center in Israel.




View attachment 13280




/

Interesting line towards the end of the Success Story:

"I know that Ron can feel it."

Scientology does best as a cult.
None of these Scientology Successes, as far as I can see, to the extent that I've looked, describe dramatic OT ability successes, such as might have been found in a late 1960s or 1970s Advance! magazine. (When, then, OT 6 was boldly advertised as the ability to operate exterior, and, then, OT 8 was TOTAL POWER ON ALL DYNAMICS!!!!) At that time, people really expected to become actual Operating Thetans.

Times have changed.

This is more on the order of "Nothing happened, and it cost a lot of money, and I am absolutely delighted, LRH is a genius!!!"

Or, "I have the deep satisfaction of knowing that RON (telepathically, or perhaps because, as a thetan, RON'S here with us now) knows that I've competed (such and such level.)"

Off hand, this seems to be a way of coping with the problem of "no actual OT abilities from Scientology OT levels."

The "bottom line" is that the person be absolutely delighted. VVVGIs!

Strange.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
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LOL!

As you well know, it can be very tricky watching Scientologists rhapsodize about their OT wins & powers. It looks deceptively simple, kind of like being a country kid going into the big city for the first time, and encountering one's first sidewalk THREE CUP MONTE game (aka 3 CARD MONTE)..

It looks so easy, anyone can win!

Ya gotta go back and slow the video down--again and again--until you end up at Zapruder speed, frame-by-frame analysis.

With Scientology OTs giving their miraculous wins, if you get the angle just right, you. can spot the red ball and how they switched it out to another cup while you were misdirected to look elsewhere.

Street rackets, whether Scientology or shell games are the only games (in the Mark's universe) where everyone wins. LOL



.​
One additional similarity between Scientology and Three Card Monte: unbeknownst to you, most of the crowd are friends of the scammer, and if you realize the scam and make an issue of it, the scam turns into a mugging.

In Scientology, if you realize the scam, you get fair gamed, or maybe Lisa McPherson'ed
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
"slow cooking" "gems" "unifying theory" "scientific breakthrough"
While waiting for these to percolate up to the surface, I dug through my extensive collection and
found this wonderful book which seems to dissect and explain everything we've been talking about.

DonBook.jpg

In a nutshell, the author basically says one needs to simply change one's mind about
things and one will be happy and all will be good in this best of all possible worlds.

Instead of hoping to:
  • read books in the next room while exterior
  • read minds of anyone nearby
  • see everything behind your head
  • hear conversations a mile away
  • have full exterior perception as you float above the clouds like a bird
  • visit planet Venus and the implant station and see the trains
  • see the hidden structures on the dark side of the moon
  • travel to other universes at will
  • knock hats off heads at 30 yards
  • eventually pull the air cover off of planets
  • etc., etc., etc.
Be happy with:
  • your comm lines in life are smooth
  • you get along with you family and spouse really well
  • you production is very high
  • your dynamics are aligned and in very good order
I have it on good authority from a couple of highly ranked Sea Org executives
that what the author is writing about is absolutely correct. Recalibrating one's
expectations is the key to happiness in life after all. So they say. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
First of all, Welcome LaffyH_!!

Your post reminded me of something. I had the idea from somewhere in scn that free wheeling had the implication of uncontrollable or unstoppable thinking, most likely on a single train of thought. This might happen to a scn who was conditioned to auditing and then delved into OTIII and started reflecting on it with all types of imaginative ideas coming to mind. It might be called imagination running wild or something like that.

Regarding your post, a few years ago I was having some fun with a daydream fantasy that I might become somewhat famous in a certain field of interest. It was a very very long shot that it would ever happen but the fantasy was so much fun that I kept playing around with it. Long story short, the thing took on a life of its own and over a day later the scn term "freewheeling" came to mind (after almost 40 years out - haha) and I said to myself, or maybe out loud, "Go Do Some MEST Work!!!" which I did for a few hours which broke the "cycle". I won't do that again! Maybe I have too much of an imagination.

I had a IAS regge tell me I think too much. :LOL:

Is $cientology anti-thinking? As in, if you think it through you'll figure out the scam?

I do a lot of thinking, is that a bad thing? I always thought it was good - as opposed to being "reactive" and unthinking.

This is all so Hubbard Law of Co-Motion. :(
 
I had a IAS regge tell me I think too much. :LOL:

Is $cientology anti-thinking? As in, if you think it through you'll figure out the scam?

I do a lot of thinking, is that a bad thing? I always thought it was good - as opposed to being "reactive" and unthinking.

This is all so Hubbard Law of Co-Motion. :(
My reg was sizzling hot. She didn't have to say a word. I simply obeyed.

You think that was part of the scam? I better stop thinking. you're a bad influence.
 
While waiting for these to percolate up to the surface, I dug through my extensive collection and
found this wonderful book which seems to dissect and explain everything we've been talking about.


In a nutshell, the author basically says one needs to simply change one's mind about
things and one will be happy and all will be good in this best of all possible worlds.

Instead of hoping to:
  • read books in the next room while exterior
  • read minds of anyone nearby
  • see everything behind your head
  • hear conversations a mile away
  • have full exterior perception as you float above the clouds like a bird
  • visit planet Venus and the implant station and see the trains
  • see the hidden structures on the dark side of the moon
  • travel to other universes at will
  • knock hats off heads at 30 yards
  • eventually pull the air cover off of planets
  • etc., etc., etc.
Be happy with:
  • your comm lines in life are smooth
  • you get along with you family and spouse really well
  • you production is very high
  • your dynamics are aligned and in very good order
I have it on good authority from a couple of highly ranked Sea Org executives
that what the author is writing about is absolutely correct. Recalibrating one's
expectations is the key to happiness in life after all. So they say. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They're giving us a short cut to OT-VIII. Truth revealed.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Instead of hoping to:
  • read books in the next room while exterior
Why would you do that, you lost the keys to your private library?

Wouldn't it be easier to find the keys using your OT powers... you know, the same way you find your car keys?
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
My reg was sizzling hot. She didn't have to say a word. I simply obeyed.

You think that was part of the scam? I better stop thinking. you're a bad influence.
There was a reason why the hottest girl on staff was assigned to Div 6 body routing at my old org.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
There was a reason why the hottest girl on staff was assigned to Div 6 body routing at my old org.
Hey, they did the very same thing at my org when I was on staff.

I think I told this story somewhere on the forums before: Guys were literally crossing from the other side of the road to come talk to her, but the success rate was low. They wanted to stand and leer at her, not go into the damn org. :hysterical:
 

Irayam

Well-known member
Hey, they did the very same thing at my org when I was on staff.

I think I told this story somewhere on the forums before: Guys were literally crossing from the other side of the road to come talk to her, but the success rate was low. They wanted to stand and leer at her, not go into the damn org. :hysterical:
It’s probably standard tek. It was also the same at my org.
For some guys it was really easy:
Girl: Do you know dianetics?
Guy: hem…
Girl: OK! Follow me!
And without looking back, she was already 10 meters ahead of the guy who was following her to the org.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
It’s probably standard tek. It was also the same at my org.
Laughs aside, there was something about it in Hubbard's writing (or was that a lecture?). Either way I vaguely remember some sort of comment from Hubbard to the extent of: "If you have someone pretty, but not very bright - make them a body router".

... did I mention I was a body router once?
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Then there is the touch assist story from old CCNash

You know, that old building that was a converted small house. Happy ending and fn at exams.
 
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