Did David Miscavige do the OT levels himself?

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
wouldn't the same question and principles apply to LRH?

and didn't he say something to the effect that being in the sea org is being OT?

i suspect DM thinks of himself, having learned at the feet of 'source', as another 'big being'. or at least as another player of games on the same level....
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
And if he gets auditing, who audits him?
David "Darth Midget" Miscavige is not about to let anyone else audit him. He has far, far too many withholds of serious Scientology High Crimes and violations of non-Scientology criminal and civil statutes for that.

Just a few examples:

(1) Without any of the required technical training or internships, he wrote a case supervisor note ordering Lisa McPherson to falsely attest to clear which is what precipitated the Type III psychotic break. This ultimately lead to her death during the isolation phase of a totally botched Introspection Rundown which Darth Midget was personally micromanaging.

(2) Ron Hubbard never left him in charge of the C of S. He performed a type of in-house coup by getting rid of all those loyal to Ron Hubbard in upper management and then completely ignored the 1982 Corporate Sort-out reorganization of Scientology into a three-way arrangement of CST - RTC-CSI where each was supposed to have power over the other two.

(3) He and Pat Broeker lost tons of Hubbard's personal money playing the stock market without authorization. D.M.'s solution was to lie to Hubbard about a non-existent Mission Holder mutiny as a pretext so that he could then (very unlawfully) seize their bank accounts in order to pay back the money they lost without Hubbard finding out.

4) One of the biggest - the O.T. Levels through VII were stolen from Publications Org DK by a fake RTC mission and then released to Independent Field. This was hidden from Ron Hubbard and it is still *very* hidden from the staff and public including almost the entire Sea Org. If the Scientology whales were to ever learn this for a true fact, there would go his income stream.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
His name is not on this list: SCIENTOLOGY OT 8 LIST - WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

Just wondering.

And if he gets auditing, who audits him?

Shouldn't his name be the first name on OT completion lists?

If he doesn't get auditing, does this mean that Scientology is run by a WOG??

Isn't it like Hogwarts being run by Muggles? Yikes!

:dizzy:
The OT levels up to OT8 are actually not OT or operating thetan, up to OT8 are pre OT levels. OT9 is supposed to be the first actual OT level, or operating level as a OT Operating Thetan where one has powers to be cause over life, matter, energy, space and time.

It's all a bunch of rhetoric. Hubbard, DM and their lawyers have fooled everybody still involved. Even the off shoots.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
wouldn't the same question and principles apply to LRH?

and didn't he say something to the effect that being in the sea org is being OT?

i suspect DM thinks of himself, having learned at the feet of 'source', as another 'big being'. or at least as another player of games on the same level....
.

That post made me wonder if other ultra-elites like TOM CRUISE are listed on that "SCIENTOLOGY COMPLETIONS" database accessible on the internet.

Nope.
Tom Mapother - Scientology Service Completions
However, there is another entry at THOMAS MAPOTHER. But it only shows one (1) service--the Student Hat, which he completed in 1989.

Alas! Not everyone in Scientology has to follow the same set of rules. I'll bet when Cruise starts every course since 1989 and has to re-study the HCOPL "Keeping Scientology Working", it has been carefully edited to remove the following passage:

"When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of pantywaist dilettantes have ever made anything. It’s a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive—and even they have a hard time. We’ll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don’t make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she’ll win and we’ll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.”

.
 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
.

That post made me wonder if other ultra-elites like TOM CRUISE are listed on that "SCIENTOLOGY COMPLETIONS" database accessible on the internet.

Nope.
Tom Mapother - Scientology Service Completions
However, there is another entry at THOMAS MAPOTHER. But it only shows one (1) service--the Student Hat, which he completed in 1989.
to be the logical, fact-checking spoil-sport, i've noticed that in other cases, it seems that celebrity center clients must have the option not to have their completions publicized. which itself is a sticky wicket suggesting that the CofS has long known that doing the 'bridge' is something that prominent people may want to hide, and is willing to permit and abet 'Kha Khans', whales and other preferred beings doing so.

but then again, it leaves you guessing. maybe Tom really is on some sooper seekrit alternate bridge, like where hanging around someone who hung around 'source' himself is 'senior' to auditing and processing....
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
to be the logical, fact-checking spoil-sport, i've noticed that in other cases, it seems that celebrity center clients must have the option not to have their completions publicized. which itself is a sticky wicket suggesting that the CofS has long known that doing the 'bridge' is something that prominent people may want to hide, and is willing to permit and abet 'Kha Khans', whales and other preferred beings doing so.

but then again, it leaves you guessing. maybe Tom really is on some sooper seekrit alternate bridge, like where hanging around someone who hung around 'source' himself is 'senior' to auditing and processing....

You identified a hitherto unknown cult "tell".

if those OT levels worked and messianic moviestars were working miracles all over the MEST universe, every celebrity who attained such transcendental heights would be bragging their asses off. Status is such a big part of the Hollywood ego, they would not miss a beat when telling reporters and adoring fans about how they just returned from a marvelous trip to the Van Allen Belt.

What a freakin' tell!!!

The only possible reason that anyone would not wish to be associated with their own religious cult is because the tech is a miserably disgraceful failure. When is the last time anyone heard someone reluctant to admit that they could leave their body, levitate objects and heal the sick?

.
 
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Nosy_Creature

Active member
wouldn't the same question and principles apply to LRH?

and didn't he say something to the effect that being in the sea org is being OT?

i suspect DM thinks of himself, having learned at the feet of 'source', as another 'big being'. or at least as another player of games on the same level....
David Mayo said that he audited LRH
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
The only possible reason that anyone would not to be associated with their own religious cult is because the tech is a miserably disgraceful failure. When is the last time anyone heard someone reluctant to admit that they could leave their body, levitate objects and heal the sick?
i'm sure their internal rationalization is that the current environment is so suppressive, because there is such opposition from SPs, psychs and other conspirators to scientology's wonderfulness, that it needs to be handled first (like Scn TV!) so that celebrities can come out publicly -- hinting at another problem, more are coming out of the closet, or tacitly announcing that they're out of the CoS itself, than are speaking out.

i do find it very telling that even TC stopped speaking out publicly about scientology quite a few years ago, i'm guessing in part because his PR people and maybe even his production partners insisted on it after his previous mis-steps (not very OT!) like the couch jumping incident and the leaked crazed video. similarly JT has said nothing more than maybe a brief formulaic response to a question, and the rest are either similarly mum, or are so far down the celebrity lists that what little they do say from time to time hardly gets noticed.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
i'm sure their internal rationalization is that the current environment is so suppressive, because there is such opposition from SPs, psychs and other conspirators to scientology's wonderfulness, that it needs to be handled first (like Scn TV!) so that celebrities can come out publicly -- hinting at another problem, more are coming out of the closet, or tacitly announcing that they're out of the CoS itself, than are speaking out.

i do find it very telling that even TC stopped speaking out publicly about scientology quite a few years ago, i'm guessing in part because his PR people and maybe even his production partners insisted on it after his previous mis-steps (not very OT!) like the couch jumping incident and the leaked crazed video. similarly JT has said nothing more than maybe a brief formulaic response to a question, and the rest are either similarly mum, or are so far down the celebrity lists that what little they do say from time to time hardly gets noticed.
Yes, Cruise tried numerous times to live up to the messianic moviestar role-of-a-lifetime, but badly failed. His "PR-Area-Control" was a train wreck, time and time again. His 3 marriages also crashed into icebergs—despite owning multiple copies of Dr. Hubbard's book "HOW TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE"!

He tried freaky cult dissemination on the set of a Spielberg movie he was starring in and that crash landed too.

And he became the punchline to jokes about "Dr" Hubbard's kooky cult.

Even while Cruise was NOT married his "second dynamic" was a screaming hot MEST mess of cringe—with Miscavige's pimping services being outed and unsuspecting Hollywood actresses discovering that their "movie audition" was actually a covertly creepy cult recruitment campaign to find Scientology's #3 OT an Ideal Wife #4.

Probably the critical plot point in Cruise's never-ending dissemination failures was when he fired his power talent manager and decided he "knew best" how to control the "human emotion and reactions" of mere wogs by himself with a little aid from his sister and key church executives. Oooooops!

Yeah, so Cruise's bold initiatives to Clear the planet were so odiously toxic and, well--stupid, that he stopped disseminating! If that's not some kind of "high crime" it's at the very least "PTS TO THE MIDDLE CLASS", right?

Oh wait, I failed to mention Cruise's classless clown act where he had Sea Org executives communicating to his girlfriend what Tom likes sexually. And then when the gf was not liked by Minister Miscavige, Cruise told his Sea Org sycophants to go break up with his gf and kick her out of the house so he (Cruise) does not have to see her or speak to her. Then Cruise ordered her to be shipped to Flag for nasty sec checks and other reprogramming and made sure that she was assigned the most degrading "mest work" possible, using a toothbrush to clean the toilets at the Mecca of technical perfection.

Will this be the end of Tom Cruise launching yet newer and better dissemination campaigns that sinks Scientology and his own reputation even lower? Unlikely. Be patient, he won't disappoint. Tom is able to wreck things to even greater depths of disaster—because Scientologists are very "able" people!

.
 
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Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
I never know what to believe about Tom (Cruise). Does he genuinely believe that the the CofS is a high tone, theta environment busily engaged in clearing the planet and which treats its staff and public with respect and consideration - in which case he must deserve some kind of an award for cluelessness seeing how long he's been in and around the place - or does he actually know the score and pretends not to for PR purposes, in which case he's deeply cynical? Neither is very flattering but I'd prefer to believe the former.
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
i do find it very telling that even TC stopped speaking out publicly about scientology quite a few years ago, .

Yep. Tom Cruise stopped publicly promoted Scientology a good long while back.

I reckon that has a lot to do with David "Darth Midget" Miscavige who, as a highly toxic sociopathic narcissist and mad dog, almost certainly turned on him at some point. We have literally dozens of reports of D.M. turning on people when they become whatever his mad mind deems a threat. T.C. being worshipped publicly far more than himself would suffice, I reckon.

Mind you, I'm only guessing here. But consider this: D.M. holds one's Scientology friends and family hostage against publicly speaking out. This is exactly what was done to Janis Gillham Grady to keep her from publishing any sort of book about her experiences with Ron Hubbard, the Sea Org and D.M. in particular. Until her father, Peter Gillham (the famous nutritionist) finally got fed up with D.M. and left the C of S, Janis could not speak out for fear of losing him to forced Disconnection.

According to Mark "Marty" Rathbun and some others who were at Gold Base, T.C. has had auditor training and from his previous public statements, T.C. values whatever "gains" he got from his auditing. So, I reckon T.C. wants the subject of Scientology to survive, but isn't too keen on being pushed around by his former BFF, D.M. Again, that's only a guess.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
How come nobody ever (Scientologists or critics) challenged this in a court of law?
i think Sneakster is expressing an optimistic, loyalist view of the reality that LRH really didn't leave anyone clearly in charge, and certainly no real succession plan (for example, say what was to happen if key 'loyal officers' died in a car crash). there's nothing to take to court, and anything that did involve the courts would probably either get thrown out on the grounds that they have no jurisdiction over such religious disputes (there not being, again, enough clear legal basis to determine), or it would have opened up a vast can of worms about the complex structure of the whole thing, and whether power should actually say reside in one of the boards that has special outside directors (like Sherman Lenske).

from what i can figure out it seems to me thatt what was set up was intended to allow one man to control things essentially illegitimately from behind the scenes, while having the appearance of proper corporate governance. LRH apparently thought he could somehow transition that to a collective caretaker regime awaiting his reincarnation and return, which part was not (surprise, surprise) well vetted by the attorneys who worked out the rest. what happened was that the covert control structure was just taken over by another of the nearest insiders.

i'm guessing that DM thought that was the best outcome, and may even have been right given the mess left by the founder including an existential threat due to Hubbard's looting of the organization for personal gain, that left it threatened with annihiliation over back taxes. the way that the UK offshoot Process Church ended up as an animal shelter run out of Utah shows the sort of fates that typically befell cults of that era after changes of original leadership.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I reckon that has a lot to do with David "Darth Midget" Miscavige who, as a highly toxic sociopathic narcissist and mad dog, almost certainly turned on him at some point.
like 'source', like successor. LRH ended up surrounded by no one except some similar youthful sociopaths around a third his age, who enjoyed the money and power, too.

ETA: that also points to the big picture issue, LRH turned on everyone eventually, from his onetime partners and collaborators to his wives and children. at the end there were almost no seasoned hands left around him, mostly just sycophantic, opportunistic kids.
 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
David Mayo said that he audited LRH
yes, LRH did get audited -- it was after all his own invention, that his organization is based on -- so there is that difference, though i'm not sure it's fundamental. DM might even have have come to the conclusion that auditing did him no good at that stage, and left him vulnerable to the influence of others who could turn out to be SPs -- and he may even have been more or less right about that.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
The answer is: No David Miscavige did not do the OT levels.

The OT levels were doing David Miscavige.
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
.

That post made me wonder if other ultra-elites like TOM CRUISE are listed on that "SCIENTOLOGY COMPLETIONS" database accessible on the internet.

Nope.
Tom Mapother - Scientology Service Completions
However, there is another entry at THOMAS MAPOTHER. But it only shows one (1) service--the Student Hat, which he completed in 1989.

Alas! Not everyone in Scientology has to follow the same set of rules. I'll bet when Cruise starts every course since 1989 and has to re-study the HCOPL "Keeping Scientology Working", it has been carefully edited to remove the following passage:

"When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of pantywaist dilettantes have ever made anything. It’s a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive—and even they have a hard time. We’ll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don’t make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she’ll win and we’ll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.”

.
to be the logical, fact-checking spoil-sport, i've noticed that in other cases, it seems that celebrity center clients must have the option not to have their completions publicized. which itself is a sticky wicket suggesting that the CofS has long known that doing the 'bridge' is something that prominent people may want to hide, and is willing to permit and abet 'Kha Khans', whales and other preferred beings doing so.

but then again, it leaves you guessing. maybe Tom really is on some sooper seekrit alternate bridge, like where hanging around someone who hung around 'source' himself is 'senior' to auditing and processing....
From what I've heard TC is OT 8. You won't find info about celebs broadly published, unless it's coordinated and approved by them. Scientology goes to great lengths to protect their celebs. I've heard that they go as far as making sure that all info on them is under a different name, including worksheets, PC folders, etc. TC's folder won't have TC on it and you won't find any worksheets or other papers with TC on them, they will all have "John Smith" on them. I can't confirm this, it's just something I've heard.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
From what I've heard TC is OT 8. You won't find info about celebs broadly published, unless it's coordinated and approved by them. Scientology goes to great lengths to protect their celebs. I've heard that they go as far as making sure that all info on them is under a different name, including worksheets, PC folders, etc. TC's folder won't have TC on it and you won't find any worksheets or other papers with TC on them, they will all have "John Smith" on them. I can't confirm this, it's just something I've heard.
It would be surprising if he wasn't really, because his funds are limitless, he's been in the subject for decades and as a long time friend of DM's (in so far as DM has friends) he won't have had the stops on the line that even other wealthy Scientologists will have had.

He is known to guard his privacy very rigorously; if you work for him you have to sign a strict non-disclosure agreement that forbids you from talking to the press.
 
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