Consciousness should be impossible

Teanntás

Well-known member
I also like Wilber's work and have some of his books though I haven't seen his recent ones (the bookshop I used to get them from closed down a few years ago). "Up From Eden" and "No Boundary" are probably my favourites of the ones I know about.
I read both of these - No Boundary many times. And of course TOE !!
 

Zertel

Well-known member
I read both of these - No Boundary many times. And of course TOE !!
I've never read any books by Wilber so TOE gave me an MU! - lol
Mr. Google led me to "A Theory Of Everything" by Wilber and I took a quick look at a review.
Here is an excerpt which relates to this message board which discusses the religion of Scientology.
(hey - I'm joking)

[There are several ideas I find disheartening though. “. . . there will always be a large population of humanity at the magic and mythic waves, which are usually associated with traditional religion. Thus, traditional religious beliefs will never completely go away because everybody is born at square one.” And a second disheartening statement is that “Those who had hoped that we were rid of all that silly religious stuff are probably in for a rocky ride.” While I understand his point, I still find it deeply disturbing that we will always be starting at “square one.” I hope this proves not to be true in a practical sense, even if it is technically the case. I hope we can somehow short circuit the normally long educational process to get to second-tier consciousness. We are able to do that with many other of our “new world views,” and so hope springs eternal.]
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Zertel

Well-known member
Thanks. I'll have a look at that link but I've got no sound on my computer at the moment so can't listen to talks or hear the speech content of videos (should be fixed soon).

Since you mention a Hamilton though, Helen Hamilton's British and her site looks pretty solid;


There are quite a few nonduality teachers out there now, but for me, the ones worth reading / listening to don't make pie in the sky promises about how perfect life will be when you succeed with their teachings, or how you'll get everything you want or have magical powers; they're all about seeing what's going on with your life right now without your usual mental and emotional filters about what you want or don't want or think "should" be happening.
This video came up and I watched most of it. Since it's familiar material I sped up the playback. She had some interesting things to say and even though it's the same basic ideas the different teachers have their own unique way of expressing them. It looks like she is active and keeps a busy schedule. Nice to see a female teacher.

 

Teanntás

Well-known member
I've never read any books by Wilber so TOE gave me an MU! - lol
Mr. Google led me to "A Theory Of Everything" by Wilber and I took a quick look at a review.
Here is an excerpt which relates to this message board which discusses the religion of Scientology.
(hey - I'm joking)

[There are several ideas I find disheartening though. “. . . there will always be a large population of humanity at the magic and mythic waves, which are usually associated with traditional religion. Thus, traditional religious beliefs will never completely go away because everybody is born at square one.” And a second disheartening statement is that “Those who had hoped that we were rid of all that silly religious stuff are probably in for a rocky ride.” While I understand his point, I still find it deeply disturbing that we will always be starting at “square one.” I hope this proves not to be true in a practical sense, even if it is technically the case. I hope we can somehow short circuit the normally long educational process to get to second-tier consciousness. We are able to do that with many other of our “new world views,” and so hope springs eternal.]
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Your hopes are mine too. For anyone with time to spare I would suggest reading
Beyond biocentrism : rethinking time, space, consciousness, and the illusion of death (2016)
By Lanza, R. P.

or have a listen to some of the YouTube videos on the subject of biocentrism.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
This video came up and I watched most of it. Since it's familiar material I sped up the playback. She had some interesting things to say and even though it's the same basic ideas the different teachers have their own unique way of expressing them. It looks like she is active and keeps a busy schedule. Nice to see a female teacher.

It sounds like she has spent her life trying to find ways of dealing with her particular type of schizophrenia.
(I hope that she does well as she continues. :))
 

Zertel

Well-known member
It sounds like she has spent her life trying to find ways of dealing with her particular type of schizophrenia.
(I hope that she does well as she continues. :))
My understanding of nondualism which may not be correct is that "I", which would be equivalent to Thetan in scn, is a timeless observer without fixed identity watching the endless "now" go by. A skeptic might say that that is just a conditioned state of mind.

Some sects of Buddhism give credence to Instant Enlightenment which is usually referred to as Awakening in nondualism. The mind, thoughts and ego is recognized as separate and distinct from "I" and addressed as such. (again - my interpretation) Many nondualists regard the long and arduous path of traditional Buddhism as unnecessary. Another criticism of non dualism is that many people get hung up or bogged on this "path" to self realization or Awakening.

This thread spills over to the nature of consciousness and there's no one size fits all. To me it's conversation and it's all good.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
Your hopes are mine too. For anyone with time to spare I would suggest reading
Beyond biocentrism : rethinking time, space, consciousness, and the illusion of death (2016)
By Lanza, R. P.

or have a listen to some of the YouTube videos on the subject of biocentrism.
The "link" you posted doesn't go anywhere. Amazon has a "look inside" feature which I'll look at later. The wiki article on Robert Lanza generally dismisses his theory. Do you have a representative youtube video you can post?

Here's the Amazon link:


P.S. The quote I posted above was from the review I looked at, not me. lol
 
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Teanntás

Well-known member
The "link" you posted doesn't go anywhere. Amazon has a "look inside" feature which I'll look at later. The wiki article on Robert Lanza generally dismisses his theory. Do you have a representative youtube video you can post?

Here's the Amazon link:


P.S. The quote I posted above was from the review I looked at, not me. lol
18 minutes.
 

Teanntás

Well-known member
My understanding of nondualism which may not be correct is that "I", which would be equivalent to Thetan in scn, is a timeless observer without fixed identity watching the endless "now" go by. A skeptic might say that that is just a conditioned state of mind.

Some sects of Buddhism give credence to Instant Enlightenment which is usually referred to as Awakening in nondualism. The mind, thoughts and ego is recognized as separate and distinct from "I" and addressed as such. (again - my interpretation) Many nondualists regard the long and arduous path of traditional Buddhism as unnecessary. Another criticism of non dualism is that many people get hung up or bogged on this "path" to self realization or Awakening.

This thread spills over to the nature of consciousness and there's no one size fits all. To me it's conversation and it's all good.
Are you familiar with the ideas of Tony Parsons? There are some YouTube videos as well.
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Are you familiar with the ideas of Tony Parsons? There are some YouTube videos as well.
Excerpt from the Introduction:

As all of this was happening there was a transition from me watching my walking to simply the presence of walking. What happened then is simply beyond description. I can only inadequately say in words that total stillness and presence seemed to descend over everything. All and everything became timeless and I no longer existed. I vanished and there was no longer an experiencer.
Oneness with all and everything was what happened. I can’t say I was at one because I had disappeared. I can only say that oneness with all and everything was what happened, and an overwhelming love filled every part. Together with this there came a total comprehension of the whole. All of this happened in a timeless flash, which seemed eternal.


As a person having OUT INT from hell, my spiritual quest had been to find ways to escape the world. I never understood why I felt so upset at being in it. This disappeared in my first auditing, and I'd some experiences like those in the excerpt. But, the longer metered auditing went on, the more I was feeling like 'encapsulated consciousness' again, I lost that feeling of being in a flow state, with a shift into a tightly localized one. I began sensing a glass ceiling while trying to leave again. Maybe there are decisions to keep parts of the self embedded in space and time. When we slide into these, it's payback time.

To me, there often seems some fight against senior intentions which forbid the dissolution of intentionally localized consciousness. Survival? Maybe this is like crossing the Abyss where one forsakes his individuated awareness. Seems Westerners hold it dearer to the heart than they do in the East, and have a harder time.

I admire that Tony Parsons, not only could experience, but continued to access a special state. That is his gift.
 
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Teanntás

Well-known member
Excerpt from the Introduction:

As all of this was happening there was a transition from me watching my walking to simply the presence of walking. What happened then is simply beyond description. I can only inadequately say in words that total stillness and presence seemed to descend over everything. All and everything became timeless and I no longer existed. I vanished and there was no longer an experiencer.
Oneness with all and everything was what happened. I can’t say I was at one because I had disappeared. I can only say that oneness with all and everything was what happened, and an overwhelming love filled every part. Together with this there came a total comprehension of the whole. All of this happened in a timeless flash, which seemed eternal.


As a person having OUT INT from hell, my spiritual quest had been to find ways to escape the world. I never understood why I felt so upset at being in it. This disappeared in my first auditing, and I'd some experiences like those in the excerpt. But, the longer metered auditing went on, the more I was feeling like 'encapsulated consciousness' again, I lost that feeling of being in a flow state, with a shift into a tightly localized one. I began sensing a glass ceiling while trying to leave again. Maybe there are decisions to keep parts of the self embedded in space and time. When we slide into these, it's payback time.

To me, there often seems some fight against senior intentions which forbid the dissolution of intentionally localized consciousness. Survival? Maybe this is like crossing the Abyss where one forsakes his individuated awareness. Seems Westerners hold it dearer to the heart than they do in the East, and have a harder time.

I admire that Tony Parsons, not only could experience, but continued to access a special state. That is his gift.
Thanks for that. I have long felt that Scientology with it's grades and OT levels were Ego ( which is a made up computation) driven . No problem with the Ego when you can calmly observe it.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Thanks for that. I have long felt that Scientology with it's grades and OT levels were Ego ( which is a made up computation) driven . No problem with the Ego when you can calmly observe it.
Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.

 

Teanntás

Well-known member
Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.

Very nice summary !
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
When non-biological (i.e. computer) consciousness that has super compute speed and super huge data access then I think that it will eventually be used as an advisor for government decisions.

However, I don't expect this to happen within the remainder of my lifetime but I believe that this is coming.
 

Barile

Well-known member
This really takes the pressure off. It's all their fault...

Planck.JPG

schroedinger.JPG
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
This really takes the pressure off. It's all their fault...
I gotta go with the Schrodinger quote!

I don't think there could be this illusion of dumping BTs into another's world or upon a different universe, if there wasn't some actual zero point where space and dimensions were irrelevant. They'd have to have some common denominator in their creation or, couldn't cling. But, I do think there's infinite dynamis in a simple postulate TO BE individual AWARENESS.

Only a commie 'thetan' would claim that nobody 'owns' their aware SELF or SELVES, and it all belongs to the whole. Being an INDIVIDUAL is an act of intentional creation, which permits his subsequent creations to exist without dissolving into the primordial fire.

1623537307517.png
 
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