Consciousness should be impossible

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
I don;t get it.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Got this in my inbox today . . . :whistle:

These people would disagree with the OP.
They're all plugged in to a higher consciousness
and "know" much more than we pedestrians do,
I'm guessin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can be your truth too for $1249 to $1899 (includes shared or private room).

Consciousness sells!
shaman_meme.jpeg
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
Besides consciousness itself, consider the long list of discoveries and inventions, which we take for granted.

Life is a miracle.
What do you have in mind when you use the term "miracle"?

(I don't want to chase after word definitions. What is this concept that you have?)
 
Last edited:

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Besides consciousness itself, consider the long list of discoveries and inventions, which we take for granted.

Life is a miracle.
If you put it like that, I start to think it is a miracle.

But then I think of all the discoveries and inventions that we could have done, but so far failed to. Then it seems less miraculous all of a sudden.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
Mechanical consciousness is formed by placing volition (aka Will) into MEST.
Ed
In my opinion:
Developement of non-biological computer self-awareness will require collaboration between brain neuroscience and computer science.
Then this part would be added to what is currently called "machine learning".
 
Last edited:

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
Also, is abiogenesis a miracle?

Or just need a gigantic universe with so many various conditions in so many places that it will eventually occur in a few places.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Along that line of thought might be the beginning or initial moment or moments of self consciousness. Omitting parentheses on everything and using scn terminology my co-auditor had a metaphor he called the "Sea of Theta" which I liked and adopted. That would be like a sea of champagne with each bubble popping up being an individual thetan coming into awareness. All my engram chains began going back to that basic-basic area. For example an attitude of, let's say annoyance, might track back to one of those thetans banging into me. Sadness might be having an attraction toward some thetan or group of thetans and having them leave and move on.

On what was called the Dianetic Drug Rundown, addressing attitudes, emotions, sensations and pains associated with drugs, (I don't know if scn still has it) my co-auditor said, "Locate an incident of . . . (whatever it was)". I looked and looked and then I burst out laughing and said, "Joe, it's just a joke! There's nothing there!" and I was off attesting to Dianetic Clear. I blew scn a month or two later because of the price increases around 1980 so that was the end of my scn exploration of consciousness. It was fun while it lasted.
 
Last edited:

Zertel

Well-known member
Consciousness as related to quantum physics/mechaniics. Now there's a brain/neuron twister for you! Interesting discussion.🤔

A less scientific discussion once occurred on Rathbun's blog. A couple of people were debating about whether or not a thetan has "a tiny bit of mass".

Elron said there wasn't enough storage space in the brain to store all the inputs coming in which made sense at the time, but the neuro surgeon above says there is ten to the fifteenth storage space* so I guess that would cover at least one lifetime. 😇

* That would be billions of neurons in the brain times all the appendages or whatever the technical term is attached to them. Big number - haha
 
Last edited:

Zertel

Well-known member
Every once in awhile I like to post this quote from Ken Wilber. As a New Age philosopher he has plenty of critics but currently has a group called Integral Life which has a lot of followers. Somehow I inadvertently ended up on their email list and get notices about various courses they offer like meditation, relationships and so on from various members as well as discussions about politics and the state of the world which are free to read and which I occasionally do. Here is the quote:

  1. Wilber: "Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell variations on the same story, don't they? The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice, understanding therapist. Yes, I'm sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with a greater depth and greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual's consciousness does indeed touch infinity—a total embrace of the entire Kosmos—a Kosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It's at least plausible. And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?"[19]
 
Last edited:

Teanntás

Well-known member
Every once in awhile I like to post this quote from Ken Wilber. As a New Age philosopher he has plenty of critics but currently has a group called Integral Life which has a lot of followers. Somehow I inadvertently ended up on their email list and get notices about various courses they offer like meditation, relationships and so on from various members as well as discussions about politics and the state of the world which are free to read and which I occasionally do. Here is the quote:

  1. Wilber: "Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell variations on the same story, don't they? The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice, understanding therapist. Yes, I'm sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with a greater depth and greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual's consciousness does indeed touch infinity—a total embrace of the entire Kosmos—a Kosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It's at least plausible. And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?"[19]
I read several of his books about 20 years ago. I noticed that he has a recent book
  • The religion of tomorrow : a vision for the future of the great traditions--more inclusive, more comprehensive, more complete / Ken Wilber. 2017.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
I read several of his books about 20 years ago. I noticed that he has a recent book
  • The religion of tomorrow : a vision for the future of the great traditions--more inclusive, more comprehensive, more complete / Ken Wilber. 2017.
I also like Wilber's work and have some of his books though I haven't seen his recent ones (the bookshop I used to get them from closed down a few years ago). "Up From Eden" and "No Boundary" are probably my favourites of the ones I know about.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
On the facetious side I was browsing the internet looking for a video I watched a few years ago where a group of Ken Wilber followers went off on an excursion to a jungle somewhere and got stoned on some psychedelic jungle juice and went through an overnight guided meditation led by a guru who resided there. A follow up video of a few of them showed they came out rather starry eyed with a new perspective on life. lol

I couldn't find those videos but at random I happened to stop and listen to a short talk by Craig Hamilton who offers a meditation course through Integral Life. This thread addresses the nature of consciousness but what do you do WITH consciousness?

I don't meditate but I found this short talk refreshing, putting my attention on the big picture rather than current events.

 
Last edited:

Zertel

Well-known member
I also like Wilber's work and have some of his books though I haven't seen his recent ones (the bookshop I used to get them from closed down a few years ago). "Up From Eden" and "No Boundary" are probably my favourites of the ones I know about.
Hey Cat's Squirrel - We had some discussion on the Mooji thread you started. :)

Hamilton is a non-dualism teacher. If you follow up on the link I posted and click the "Click here to register" button it goes into the details of his course and there is a lot of discussion of non-dualism ideas which I find interesting. There is no obligation to register.

I guess some Wilber's followers some years ago were adventurous and willing to go out on a limb and try a new approach to consciousness. It's probably not recommended in the current Integral Life version. lol

Probably some Hubbard followers in the early days were willing to be guinea pigs and test out new "processes". "Be three feet in back of the Universe!"
 
Last edited:

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
Hey Cat's Squirrel - We had some discussion on the Mooji thread you started. :)

Hamilton is a non-dualism teacher. If you follow up on the link I posted and click the "Click here to register" button it goes into the details of his course and there is a lot of discussion of non-dualism ideas which I find interesting. There is no obligation to register.

I guess some Wilber's followers some years ago were adventurous and willing to go out on a limb and try a new approach to consciousness. It's probably not recommended in the current Integral Life version. lol

Probably some Hubbard followers in the early days were willing to be guinea pigs and test out new "processes". "Be three feet in back of the Universe!"
Thanks. I'll have a look at that link but I've got no sound on my computer at the moment so can't listen to talks or hear the speech content of videos (should be fixed soon).

Since you mention a Hamilton though, Helen Hamilton's British and her site looks pretty solid;


There are quite a few nonduality teachers out there now, but for me, the ones worth reading / listening to don't make pie in the sky promises about how perfect life will be when you succeed with their teachings, or how you'll get everything you want or have magical powers; they're all about seeing what's going on with your life right now without your usual mental and emotional filters about what you want or don't want or think "should" be happening.
 
Last edited:
Top