Competition and aggression in scientology

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Competition & aggression seem to be mentioned usually in once sentence in the "big world". Especially in terms of business and warfare. And to some extent, one can see a correlation between the two.

This got me thinking, because it felt to me like the exact opposite is true in Scientology. The Sea Org in particular is supposed to be all about "the group" and being gung-ho and being all together, living together, sharing hardships, up to the point of sharing collective punishment for the whole base etc.

There were very, very, very few examples where I would see any sort of benefit for my team to have other departments or teams inside the PAC base do poorly. We weren't really in a race with one another, rather we were in a race against our own stats and against stupid orders coming from above.

And yet despite all this heavy group-focus and the "togetherness" gung-ho, the Sea Org is undoubtedly the part of scientology that sees the most aggression. Verbal aggression in specific, but also physical and mental aggression and abuse.

It almost seems like the less competition you got, the more aggression came up.


Your thoughts?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
I may be misunderstanding your question (the first sentence is a bit wonky) but I never felt very much 'group togetherness' in the SO at all with the exception of an hour or two when we were stuffing envelopes late at night (all hands on deck!) all exhausted but with our post faces relaxed. Paul was there. Maybe that was because I didn't encourage it but I don't think it was just for that reason. Many of the people there were lovely but everyone was always so on edge, so stressed just beneath the surface and we all knew that we couldn't trust each other. It felt to me as if every word spoken and even our body language was being constantly monitored and assessed, it was a very oppressive environment which we all seemed to be pretending not to notice.

Anger and aggression was definitely there, you could feel it especially in the older females who were probably menopausal and somewhat bitter about where they had ended up.

It felt like a battle to get through each day with nothing to look forward to at all, literally nothing ... it was the survival of the fittest but there was no point in being a survivor.

I recall thinking the RPF would be less stressful and from what I've heard about it since I think in some ways it probably was.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
I may be misunderstanding your question (the first sentence is a bit wonky)
Fair enough.

I meant to say that in the non-scientology world, the more competitive an environment gets, the more aggressive it is.

In scientology it seems to be the opposite. Registrars working with the public are arguably in a far more competitive environment than I&R or CMO or DIV7. And yet I think we will all agree that within the latter ones are where you see far more aggression that between two registrars?

Many of the people there were lovely but everyone was always so on edge, so stressed just beneath the surface and we all knew that we couldn't trust each other. It felt to me as if every word spoken and even our body language was being constantly monitored and assessed, it was a very oppressive environment which we all seemed to be pretending not to notice.
Yep it certainly was. But the more communcal and "group-y" and the less competitive it was, the more hostile and aggressive it became. At least that was my experience.

Anger and aggression was definitely there, you could feel it especially in the older females who were probably menopausal and somewhat bitter about where they had ended up.
I didn't get the impression that women were more aggressive than men on the same posts, it is just that there were more women in management and especially in the CMO then men. And these were the super-aggressive posts.

It felt like a battle to get through each day with nothing to look forward to at all, literally nothing ... it was the survival of the fittest but there was no point in being a survivor.
I agree that it was a battle with no victory in sight. Far more "Business as usual" than "There must be a victory!".

I wouldn't say it was "survival of the fittest". I couldn't have cared less if people in the other departments did well or not (unless their flops spilled over somehow - but that was rare. Most of the time their failure would not help me at the slightest. On the other hand, failure of anyone in my own team would impact all of us very negatively. So we worked hard to help one another and make sure we all keep our heads above the water.

I recall thinking the RPF would be less stressful and from what I've heard about it since I think in some ways it probably was.
I really didn't want to end up in the RPF. But I was sent to redo the EPF and the EPF was much less stressful than what we did. I actually got more sleep and rest on the EPF than at inv.

When the "rough and tough bootcamp" is the better option to what you do everyday, you kinda start to wonder what the holy fuck is going on. :screwy:
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
I'd say that the aggression was directly proportional to the level of fanaticism. The other factor involved was the threat of ethics pushed from Seniors down to Juniors for failed compliance/up-stats. The Senior knew their own ass would get ripped so they passed it on down the line. Another factor in some cases would be the rising up the ranks of the those that were ruthless sociopaths (like DM) that could affect quite a large number of subordinates, creating a very hostile environment.
 

Chuck J.

INTJ
I think my little 11- 1/2 month S.O. misadventure was pre-Miscavige reign of terror. He hadn't consolidated / liquidated his "enemies" then. So that Slappy / COB valence hadn't become part of the culture of $cientology yet? I personally didn't see a lot of aggression (ca. 83/84). Once in awhile people would face off verbally but I didn't see it much.

Did see plenty of trying to curry favor with seniors / competition in that sense. People trying to look good for the boss, sometimes at another's expense. You can see that in any business environment though.


One funny competition I experienced was I guess you could say, sexual competition. At least in the other guys mind it was, lol. Amongst us n00bs in the org. I used to chat with this girl who apparently was highly prized by this other guy and (I found out later) it killed him to see me talking to her. One fine day I'm sitting down doing something and his mother, who was also in the org walks over, starts talking with me and steers the conversation to her son and how much he likes this girl. Now I thought this was kinda odd, kinda confirmed for me why I tried to always avoid the entire brood. I didn't care much for this guy his mother or the other sibling that was there. OK so I'm kinda enduring this conversation when Junior walks in, without even acknowledging his mother walks up to me, and in a proclamation sort of thing says, apropos of nothing, " I'm going to marry R______"

I was as the Brits say, gob-smacked. It was a weird moment. I suppose he thought he made quite an effect. My stunned look was not because of his "Tone 40 Certainty" or because I had any sexual interest in this girl and now I had a boulder in my path etc. - but because now I understood completely where this guys head was at. And his mother too. They planned this little episode. I saw it all in a flash. Junior complaining to Mom that bad Chuckie is always encroaching on the Apple of his Eye, so sad. Mom saying, "Well Junior, you need to do something." etc. Wow. I was this biiiig threat to Juniors future happiness. lol.

I don't even remember what I said to him. Probably something like, "Well, that's nice J_____" He apparently thought by my visage that he had made his point, vanquished the threat, so he walked out of the room, again without even acknowledging his mother.

He evidently was infatuated with this girl but I can't remember a single time I ever saw him even talk to her. Even over the next several months.

Wackadoodle.




I don't know why I remember these odd little moments rather than the big important stuff, but I do.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
He evidently was infatuated with this girl but I can't remember a single time I ever saw him even talk to her. Even over the next several months.

Wackadoodle.
Either that, or he felt that when they got married they would instantly get a room of their own due to her status. But then he talked to her and she actually explained that would not happen or that for some reason she would be at the dog-end of the room waiting list. So he gave up.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

The single time I ever got close to being married was precisely because of the room. Having that felt like a really big thing.
Even if I got married, I sincerely doubt any sex would happen. That whole "when the head hits the pillow" talk Tom Cruise made? Heck, for the vast majority of time I don't remember my head hitting the pillow in the SO. I would go up to the bed and fall asleep "on the way down".

Even if they don't fall asleep instantly, I doubt anyone ever really gets laid in the SO - they just "go through the motions" instead.




🎵 You are supposed to go back 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You are tough and tone 40 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You buy mostly snickers and toilet paper 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You are either so damn alive or so fucking dead 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Musters are a form of entertainment 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Orders come and go 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Coffee is crappy 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone gets paid shit 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone runs back and forth from the toilet, but never gets anywhere 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone pretends to be on top of the game 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Victory there must be, but it's never in sight 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing grows, except the archives 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing does what it's supposed to do 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing tastes great 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing really makes sense 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing ever changes 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody cares about INCOMM 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is ever really alone 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody uses perfume 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody gives a damn about what you think 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody tells funny jokes 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody can age 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody can fall ill 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody really gets laid 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is fully asleep 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is fully awake 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 And everyday is the same old thing 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Daily emergencies, but business as usual 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 We won't go back 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
The single time I ever got close to being married was precisely because of the room. Having that felt like a really big thing.
I also had the same thought at one point. Get married, didn't matter if I even liked the girl, just to have a room I only had to share with one other person.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I'd say that the aggression was directly proportional to the level of fanaticism. The other factor involved was the threat of ethics pushed from Seniors down to Juniors for failed compliance/up-stats. The Senior knew their own ass would get ripped so they passed it on down the line. Another factor in some cases would be the rising up the ranks of the those that were ruthless sociopaths (like DM) that could affect quite a large number of subordinates, creating a very hostile environment.
I saw a lot of aggression at Flag Bureaux, mostly around people needing their stats so they wouldn't be busted, and trying to find someone else to be labeled "The Who" who was responsible for a flap.

In the real world, you can't display too much aggression to co workers. HR would not tolerate it, and people would quit and maybe sue for "hostile work environment".
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
In the real world, you can't display too much aggression to co workers. HR would not tolerate it, and people would quit and maybe sue for "hostile work environment".
Exactly. Because people in the big world are sane. They are safe, sane and consensual.

Maybe a tad boring too.

I saw a lot of aggression at Flag Bureaux, mostly around people needing their stats so they wouldn't be busted
"People needing their stats" - are there any other sort of people in the SO?

... ok, are there any sort of other people in the SO who are not David Miscavige?
 
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Chuck J.

INTJ
Either that, or he felt that when they got married they would instantly get a room of their own due to her status. But then he talked to her and she actually explained that would not happen or that for some reason she would be at the dog-end of the room waiting list. So he gave up.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

The single time I ever got close to being married was precisely because of the room. Having that felt like a really big thing.
Even if I got married, I sincerely doubt any sex would happen. That whole "when the head hits the pillow" talk Tom Cruise made? Heck, for the vast majority of time I don't remember my head hitting the pillow in the SO. I would go up to the bed and fall asleep "on the way down".

Even if they don't fall asleep instantly, I doubt anyone ever really gets laid in the SO - they just "go through the motions" instead.




🎵 You are supposed to go back 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You are tough and tone 40 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You buy mostly snickers and toilet paper 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 You are either so damn alive or so fucking dead 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Musters are a form of entertainment 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Orders come and go 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Coffee is crappy 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone gets paid shit 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone runs back and forth from the toilet, but never gets anywhere 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Everyone pretends to be on top of the game 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Victory there must be, but it's never in sight 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing grows, except the archives 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing does what it's supposed to do 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing tastes great 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing really makes sense 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nothing ever changes 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody cares about INCOMM 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is ever really alone 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody uses perfume 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody gives a damn about what you think 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody tells funny jokes 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody can age 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody can fall ill 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody really gets laid 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is fully asleep 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Nobody is fully awake 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 And everyday is the same old thing 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 Daily emergencies, but business as usual 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
🎵 We won't go back 🎵
IN THE SEA ORG!
The room. That certainly could have been a part of it. Now that I think about it... one time me and a fellow EPF'r had to do a repair to the front door in a married couples room, take it off the hinges etc. I remember thinking how nice it would be not to live in a room with 6 or 8 other guys.

We were all n00bs, so as you mentioned Junior and the Apple of his Eye would have been at the ass-end of any room list.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Sea Org 101: "To hell with the spouse, I just want the room!"
 
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