Claims about L. Ron Hubbard are ripping apart the Scientology ‘Freezone’

[I M Dex]

Hubbard went back and forth as to whether the demon circuits, valence circuits or standing ridge entities were really other-determined. This topic early on had crucial bearing on the new state of clear and natural clear. It changed the whole grade chart. The Why was the elusive understanding and it went all the way back to the early 50s. It's still a bone of contention today and may have weight in the Max Hauri / Dani Lemberger fricitons. When do creations get endowed with a a personal WILL? Is it a right, or is it endowed by a higher power?



The OT VIII checksheet, assembled from recall by Arianne ?, shows it's about theta ability to divide itself. There's a lot of valence splitting and sorting out what theta was abandoned or created by whom. It might indicate a different take on the NOTS. I don't know. It also seem to aim for a viewpoint more a Static. I know there are many versions over the years.
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Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

This seeking/projecting/finding attribution to "other beings" strikes me as, and could well be an expression of Hubbard's lifelong failure to accept accountability for his own feelings and actions, becoming his way, his life philosophy, which he then imposed as the way to be throughout his "tech", "admin" and "ethics". As John Mcmaster related in recordings I've listened to, Hubbard believed he had a "standard case", and sometimes would test out a process before issuing it simply by running it on himself. And so his "demons", as he saw it, being incapable and/or unwilling to own any part of his "case" or misbehaviors, were passed on as being the same for everyone else. He's a prime example of what happens when you go this deeply into denial of self-accountability, a cautionary tale of epic proportion.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

^^^^ Perfect description

 

[Hatshepsut]

This seeking/projecting/finding attribution to "other beings" strikes me as, and could well be an expression of Hubbard's lifelong failure to accept accountability for his own feelings and actions, becoming his way, his life philosophy, which he then imposed as the way to be throughout his "tech", "admin" and "ethics". As John Mcmaster related in recordings I've listened to, Hubbard believed he had a "standard case", and sometimes would test out a process before issuing it simply by running it on himself. And so his "demons", as he saw it, being incapable and/or unwilling to own any part of his "case" or misbehaviors, were passed on as being the same for everyone else. He's a prime example of what happens when you go this deeply into denial of self-accountability, a cautionary tale of epic proportion.

No narcissist will let the facts get in the way of how they present themselves to the world. Their self image is EVERYTHING. When that facade dies, they're a failure and will sink to a sad end. It devastates them. They have entire teams out gaslighting others' with perception management. . Hubbard was good at creating his image and a construct for himself. But, he asserted you never let others have anything except a Flow 0 attitude about their own failures. I actually had to step outside my Scientology mental box, and become my own lawyer, before I could examine the correct 'why'.

The tech teaches you to toss out your basic reasoning when examining predisposition building up. There's some irony about being in a philosophy that supposed to promote looking, observing, and examining the correct whys, but won't let you ever blame anybody but YOU. And of course Ron was exempt from self blame. I don't believe he felt he had a standard case. There were so many parts of his occult past he kept to himself, as if by some oath. Then he said over and over that we shouldn't speculate bout how he came to rise above the bank. After all he was an outsider, not from here, so he wasn't standard.

I can understand why most sane people object to assigning causality to things we label as demons. When you don't have that issue, it's not part of your package to deal with. It's non-existent. It's a cop put. But if you deal with criminals and addicts in the justice system, or get to watch the security cameras while they act out, on meth or crack......you can almost see and feel them. Oy, the skin crawls. I'm of the opinion that conditions or somatics are all contained in the package running the person. Demon or valence or whatever, it has perceivable mass.

LRH was chronically avoiding or hiding from what he knew to be true. He'd divided himself in two in order to forever solo audit, and he somehow got his own enemy in the show.

 

[I M Dex]

This seeking/projecting/finding attribution to "other beings" strikes me as, and could well be an expression of Hubbard's lifelong failure to accept accountability for his own feelings and actions, becoming his way, his life philosophy, which he then imposed as the way to be throughout his "tech", "admin" and "ethics". As John Mcmaster related in recordings I've listened to, Hubbard believed he had a "standard case", and sometimes would test out a process before issuing it simply by running it on himself. And so his "demons", as he saw it, being incapable and/or unwilling to own any part of his "case" or misbehaviors, were passed on as being the same for everyone else. He's a prime example of what happens when you go this deeply into denial of self-accountability, a cautionary tale of epic proportion.

One of the earliest known examples of Hubbard's "It's not my fault, I'm clean, it was the unseen forces" is his bankrupting of the original 1950-1951 Elizabeth, New Jersey "Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation" by using it as his personal piggy bank, and then making claims that it was "infiltrated and destroyed by an FBI mole" ("because his work was so powerful that the government wanted to steal it, and suppress and enslave the population by denying it to the world"). And as a reminder, what was the background of the man who introduced "Body Thetans" to the world? Oh yeah, that's right, he was a science fiction writer. (Give..me..strength)

 

[Hatshepsut]

One of the earliest known examples of Hubbard's "It's not my fault, I'm clean, it was the unseen forces" is his bankrupting of the original 1950-1951 Elizabeth, New Jersey "Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation" by using it as his personal piggy bank, and then making claims that it was "infiltrated and destroyed by an FBI mole" ("because his work was so powerful that the government wanted to steal it, and suppress and enslave the population by denying it to the world"). And as a reminder, what was the background of the man who introduced "Body Thetans" to the world? Oh yeah, that's right, he was a science fiction writer. (Give..me..strength)

"And there I was.....minding me own business."



(the Purcell episode)

Bare-Faced Messiah: Chapter 11

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Well, the full claim is that "Ron Hubbard was replaced back in 1972 by a C.I.A. doppelganger so the U.S. Government could gain control of the real OT Levels."

i think i've seen different versions, and it seems to me like the sort of thing that people involved and indoctrinated in an organization with conspiratorial and scapegoating tendences would come up with when the CoS and its Dear Leader started looking and acting in ways that didn't fit with the ideal they had in their minds.

also, it has been claimed that he was first replaced sometime around '65-'67 -- as a way to explain away his turn towards 'harsh ethics' and the sort of authoritarianism seen in KSW that resulted in for example almost all the original Saint Hill staff getting declared or leaving. i think the later version came from people who hadn't been around that long or else somehow had missed the earlier debacle, thought things had been wonderful when they joined and before but then were trying to explain away the (re)introduction of 'heavy ethics' and the (re)issue of KSW in '70-'71, the takeover of orgs by the Sea Org and the sending out of 'missions' that put daggers into walls, etc.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

(1) to explain away all the known shitty behaviors Hubbard exhibited as he progressed deeper and deeper into his megalomania and paranoia, and (2) to elevate Hubbard and his "tech" to super-cosmic proportions, to justify their investment in it, in trying to quell their own cognitive dissonance

i'd also add, trying to blame government agencies' issues with scn on nefarious intent, and not the real issues such as cases of psychosis, and suicide -- not to mention apparently high rates of cancer deaths. oh, and deterioration in mental and physical health due to discouraging people from seeking appropriate science-based care when necessary....

 

[I M Dex]

i'd also add, trying to blame government agencies' issues with scn on nefarious intent, and not the real issues such as cases of psychosis, and suicide -- not to mention apparently high rates of cancer deaths. oh, and deterioration in mental and physical health due to discouraging people from seeking appropriate science-based care when necessary....

Well yeah, that too. Although, as to the mentions of unusually high cancer rates, that part I'm not so sure about. It's one of the very few claims against Scientology that I'd put the brakes on. There's never been any fact-based quantitative comparison, and as my father's oncologist said, "If you live long enough, you'll die of cancer", although, that's the perspective of an oncologist. My father and son both passed from cancer, neither having been a Scientologist, and we've all been touched by people close to us suffering from cancer. I'm all for exposing the fallacies and detrimental qualities of Scientology, but I find the cancer speculation just that- speculation, unsubstantiated and unreliable. But as to the possibility of a higher death rate due to lack of proper medical treatment, that could well be. A cancer patient could get "PTS handling" and "purifs" til the cows come home, but its terribly unlikely to help. (They should be seeking medical treatment before those cows are even on their way).

 

[Type4_PTS]

Well yeah, that too. Although, as to the mentions of unusually high cancer rates, that part I'm not so sure about. It's one of the very few claims against Scientology that I'd put the brakes on. There's never been any fact-based quantitative comparison, and as my father's oncologist said, "If you live long enough, you'll die of cancer", although, that's the perspective of an oncologist. My father and son both passed from cancer, neither having been a Scientologist, and we've all been touched by people close to us suffering from cancer. I'm all for exposing the fallacies and detrimental qualities of Scientology, but I find the cancer speculation just that- speculation, unsubstantiated and unreliable. But as to the possibility of a higher death rate due to lack of proper medical treatment, that could well be. A cancer patient could get "PTS handling" and "purifs" til the cows come home, but its terribly unlikely to help. (They should be seeking medical treatment before those cows are even on their way).

I would bet that Scientologists do get cancer at a higher rate than the general population, especially those who were staff members or in the Sea Org.

Anything that increases one's level of chronic stress to the degree that life as a staff member or Sea Org member does will increase one's vulnerability to cancer.

Do a search, asking "does chronic stress increase vulnerability to cancer". You'll find some science based answers to that question.

CoS will never willingly give anyone the data to verify this. But if we did a project, listing out every death of those who were Scientologists (or spent decades involved with it) where the cause of death is known, I bet it will show:
1) higher incidence of cancer as cause of death than general population.
2) lower life expectancy then general population.

Here's one reference:

Chronic Stress Promotes Cancer Development - PMC

Stress is an inevitable part of life. Chronic stress on account of reasons like adversity, depression, anxiety, or loneliness/social isolation can endanger human health. Recent studies have shown that chronic stress can induce tumorigenesis and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[I M Dex]

I would bet that Scientologists do get cancer at a higher rate than the general population, especially those who were staff members or in the Sea Org.

Anything that increases one's level of chronic stress to the degree that life as a staff member or Sea Org member does will increase one's vulnerability to cancer.

Do a search, asking "does chronic stress increase vulnerability to cancer". You'll find some science based answers to that question.

CoS will never willingly give anyone the data to verify this. But if we did a project, listing out every death of those who were Scientologists (or spent decades involved with it) where the cause of death is known, I bet it will show:
1) higher incidence of cancer as cause of death than general population.
2) lower life expectancy then general population.

Here's one reference:

Chronic Stress Promotes Cancer Development - PMC

Stress is an inevitable part of life. Chronic stress on account of reasons like adversity, depression, anxiety, or loneliness/social isolation can endanger human health. Recent studies have shown that chronic stress can induce tumorigenesis and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

OK, but still, that's simply speculation. There's so much we can recognize about what has occurred within the cult that is documented fact. A huge volume of things that have clearly happened. Lives ruined, relationships lost, fortunes squandered, Alarmingly abusive practices and incidents, healthy mindsets tragically transformed, thefts, slavery, lives misspent, family lost, serious criminality, and on and on. As there will never be a remotely reliable accounting of the incidence of cancer for Scientologists to be compared with a baseline of norms, I think it's more relevant to point to all the known horrors of involvement in the cult than to present speculation.

 

[lotus]

I would bet that Scientologists do get cancer at a higher rate than the general population, especially those who were staff members or in the Sea Org.

Anything that increases one's level of chronic stress to the degree that life as a staff member or Sea Org member does will increase one's vulnerability to cancer.

Do a search, asking "does chronic stress increase vulnerability to cancer". You'll find some science based answers to that question.

CoS will never willingly give anyone the data to verify this. But if we did a project, listing out every death of those who were Scientologists (or spent decades involved with it) where the cause of death is known, I bet it will show:
1) higher incidence of cancer as cause of death than general population.
2) lower life expectancy then general population.

Here's one reference:

Chronic Stress Promotes Cancer Development - PMC

Stress is an inevitable part of life. Chronic stress on account of reasons like adversity, depression, anxiety, or loneliness/social isolation can endanger human health. Recent studies have shown that chronic stress can induce tumorigenesis and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes it does
Évidence based

chronic stress impact the epigenetic, dysregulate proteins expressions and dysregulate signaling pathways involved in cancer like those triggered by chronic Increase of cortisol andimmune cells exhaustion.

My personal observations, own personal experience, make me conclude that yes, SO members are more prone to cancers at a younger age. I lost many of my Scieno friends from cancers when they were between 30 and 45 , and others before 60.

The constant chronic PTSI ( post traumatic state injury) they are pushed in, living in a constant state of freeze, is the worse state that research on mice found will lead to cancer and impede healing. Think of RPF.
I myself came back from my SO escape with trauma, that I carried a lifetime (learned to live with it) and had my first cancer at 40. I can’t find such a similar traumatic time I had in my life.

Most of former SO , included some of those here, display signs of chronic trauma response; often it shows as a dissociation , denial, which is very common with exSO. It takes courage to heal because we have to go deep within and face what we have witnessed , what we have participated in, what we suffered, and heal from the remaining pain and suffering.

Those who can’t look and see are often avoiding the most harmful abuses Scientology did, especially toward kids and children, labour camps gulags, they often deny it (like to talk about the good ole time ) and often don’t have any empathy toward those who speak about their suffering, especially former abused kids.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

This 1972 "disappearance" is false.
I attended the daily lectures Hubbard gave us live on "New Vitality Rundown" in Daytona after we landed in 1975
It was the Hubbard that I had always known from the Apollo.

That testimony ends any and all questions, doubts and reservations about whether Ron was always the REAL RON.

Thus ends all conspiracy theories once and for all!

Thank God!

Except.....wait........what if the fake "substitute Ron" had the ability to SHAPE-SHIFT? In that case, he could have entered those daily lectures you attended just moments after the shape-shifting entity transformed into perfectly replicated Ron. Ergo, what appeared to you as RON was not the real Ron.

Sorry, I guess we are back to square one and we'll all have to do much more research to discover the exact time, place, form and event when the real Ron was kidnapped and replaced by the shape-shifter.

..

 

[Type4_PTS]

OK, but still, that's simply speculation. There's so much we can recognize about what has occurred within the cult that is documented fact. A huge volume of things that have clearly happened. Lives ruined, relationships lost, fortunes squandered, Alarmingly abusive practices and incidents, healthy mindsets tragically transformed, thefts, slavery, lives misspent, family lost, serious criminality, and on and on. As there will never be a remotely reliable accounting of the incidence of cancer for Scientologists to be compared with a baseline of norms, I think it's more relevant to point to all the known horrors of involvement in the cult than to present speculation.

While you are correct that it is not "documented fact" I wouldn't characterize either it as "simply speculation". It's based on observation.

While the CoS would never cooperate with a researcher attempting to study this type of thing, data could be collected without their cooperation. Data can be collected via death certificates and other public records, online searches, social media, obituary, cemetery, & burial records, interviewing family members, etc.

If a university or other research institution did this it would be important IMO. Hubbard claimed a lower rate of illness by those getting auditing. If researchers were able to document a higher rate of cancer or a lower life expectancy among Scientologists, it would be valuable information for those individuals considering getting involved with the CoS

 

[XenuHimself]

This myth that Mayo cured Hubbard with auditing foo is just that. Hubbard got sick and Hubbard got better - no magic auditing was necessary. Let’s keep in mind that it would seem Mayo had no belief in Scientology ‘tech’ at all by the end of his life. Hubbard was a fat smoker who didn’t take care of himself. His silly sweat program wouldn’t have helped him any more than a custom made Tesla coil suicide shock e-meter. The amazing thing to me is that many ex Scientologists still believe the Mayo myth.

David Mayo said he was able to effect a recovery of a sort. Healthwise at least. I don't know why he couldn't do a sweat program when it was obvious to him that PCs who'd done drugs weren't moving along so fast.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Hubbard was a fat smoker who didn’t take care of himself. His silly sweat program wouldn’t have helped him any more than a custom made Tesla coil suicide shock e-meter.

.
I'm still researching it, but I believe there is a 1960s HCO POLICY LETTER where it clearly states that anyone putting inval about Ron on the lines would catch a lower condition and a ban from receiving auditing for eternity! Thus, I am suggesting you knock it off in case it turns out later that LRH's "Prosperity Rundown" actually works, in which case all the ex-scientologists in the world would get back on lines and become billionaires. It would be sad if you missed out on that opportunity. You can get more hatting data over on Grant Cardone's website so your KRC on this subject improves.


..

 

[Hatshepsut]

This myth that Mayo cured Hubbard with auditing foo is just that. Hubbard got sick and Hubbard got better - no magic auditing was necessary. Let’s keep in mind that it would seem Mayo had no belief in Scientology ‘tech’ at all by the end of his life. Hubbard was a fat smoker who didn’t take care of himself. His silly sweat program wouldn’t have helped him any more than a custom made Tesla coil suicide shock e-meter. The amazing thing to me is that many ex Scientologists still believe the Mayo myth.

It's obvious Hubbard wasn't 'cured'. David Mayo stated he helped to bring Hubbard out of a near comatose state so he could get out of bed. He slowly regain his ability to function moderately.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Although, as to the mentions of unusually high cancer rates, that part I'm not so sure about.

i agree that what's going on is not at all clear. if there is something going on, it could be from all sorts of causes, and more likely a mix of factors -- i still think that there's a significant chance that the extended exposure to low-level electrical current passed through the body by the time members finish OT7 could have harmful effects including quite possibly causing cancer. if there's nothing at all to it, wouldn't it be a bit strange that there is quite such a plethora of anecdotal data that there is?

I would bet that Scientologists do get cancer at a higher rate than the general population, especially those who were staff members or in the Sea Org.

Anything that increases one's level of chronic stress to the degree that life as a staff member or Sea Org member does will increase one's vulnerability to cancer.

yes -- and add chronic sleep deprivation to the mix, which is known to have all sorts of negative effects.

plus, aren't staff and sea org -- as well as members -- much more likely to be smokers? that alone knocks about a decade off of lifespan, and doubles chances of dying due to cancer.

it certainly seems to me that obituaries and related information about deaths point to an unusual number of scientologists dying at a relatively young age, and from cancer.

research shows that people with less education and who are members of Luddite cults like the JWs definitely have shorter lifespans -- presumably with many actual causes, such as being less likely to have access to or utilize health care -- and both those would seem to apply to the CoS.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

This myth that Mayo cured Hubbard with auditing foo is just that. Hubbard got sick and Hubbard got better - no magic auditing was necessary.

also, there is some provable benefit to what in emergency health care and the military is known as 'psychological first aid'. auditing could provide some of that not because of how the old man designed it but because it's simply a vehicle for the same sorts of interpersonal interaction as confession, laying on of hands, and so on. plus many things -- including depression -- do tend to just get better with time, regardless.

i would also not be surprised if some medical intervention that was not mentioned or was even hidden -- wasn't there some history with the old man getting stimulants in vitamin shots? -- helped as well.

 

[Hatshepsut]

On the thread topic of being substituted?

Ron was into juggling identities, and It could be that he done got 'ate' by one of em. Shit happens..... and you go 'round, a mere shell of yer old self. The product is the same cause you just ain't THERE no more.....even when it happens by accident.
I've been several times over this tape. VALENCES 1956 Hubbard Professional Course. It's remarkably Zen.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Saw this 'below' on youtube tonight. Ron lecture includes narco synthesis, mind erasing and implanting impulses using Pain Drug Hypnosis..

He brags that the Russians tried hard to bribe him for his own brainwashing technology.

"Brainwashing goes on every day"....says Ron.

25 minute mark.

Russians can PDH you..... "and you won't remember it "

 

[Reyne Mayer]

That testimony ends any and all questions, doubts and reservations about whether Ron was always the REAL RON.

Thus ends all conspiracy theories once and for all!

Thank God!

Except.....wait........what if the fake "substitute Ron" had the ability to SHAPE-SHIFT? In that case, he could have entered those daily lectures you attended just moments after the shape-shifting entity transformed into perfectly replicated Ron. Ergo, what appeared to you as RON was not the real Ron.

Sorry, I guess we are back to square one and we'll all have to do much more research to discover the exact time, place, form and event when the real Ron was kidnapped and replaced by the shape-shifter.

oh, Hoaxie, you are so gullible and addled -- no wonder you fell for a cult!

it should be obvious if you understand how conspiracies work -- Karen has to be part of it as a 'former' high level insider! so of course she's going to go around saying that Ron's replacement was still the 'real' Ron -- that only proves just how insidious the conspiracy is....

/sarc