Chris Shelton has Mormon series

freethinker

Controversial
Chris Shelton is doing a series on Mormonism. From the comments people seem to like it.


 

freethinker

Controversial
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I've gotten to know some Mormon's well in recent years. Actually they no longer call themselves Mormons or refer to their Church as the Mormon Church. That's a change that occurred just within the past year, probably for marketing purposes. It is the " Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or LDS Church for short I believe.

While I'm sure they have some culty aspects about them there are some tremendous differences between them and Scientology. Their missionaries will actually recruit people who are flat out broke, something CoS would never do. I've witnessed it myself. Not only did they recruit them but they bought them clothes so they'd have something nice to wear to church for their Sunday service, and bought them food as well as they were in need of it.

While their church believes in tithing (donating a tenth of your income to the church), they don't attempt to extract every bit of money and credit you have. Plus they actually use at least some of that money to give back to members in need of help. If a Scientologist was out of work due to illness, the CoS would let you get evicted from your home before covering your mortgage payment or rent. I've seen the LDS church help people in those exact circumstances, covering a woman's expenses for several months when she was unable to. And it was not given as a loan, it was gifted to her.
 
Last edited:

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I've gotten to know some Mormon's well in recent years. Actually they know longer call themselves Mormons or refer to their Church as the Mormon Church. That's a change that occurred just within the past year, probably for marketing purposes. It is the " Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or LDS Church for short I believe.
<snip>
I don't think I've heard the term 'Mormons' used much in the last 20 years or so, and the alternative name CofLDS is the one that I have become much more familiar with over that time, that's here in the UK anyway.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I don't think I've heard the term 'Mormons' used much in the last 20 years or so, and the alternative name CofLDS is the one that I have become much more familiar with over that time, that's here in the UK anyway.
The term Mormon's may have been informally discontinued to a large extent, but what I was told is that the head of the church specifically (and officially) changed the name. OK, I found an article from this past summer. The President of the Church got a telex from God asking that the Mormon name be dropped. (OK, just kidding about the telex. But the rest was pretty much accurate)

 

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
It was a paradise for lizards when young Brigham saw it first
He said I've seen some nasty deserts Lord, but this one here's the worst
Then the Lord called down to Brigham, said "I've got a great idea"
I want a mighty city and I think I want it here

Salt Lake City, that town of righteousness and fame
Salt Lake City, don't sound like much, but hell what's in a name?
Nobody ever sings about it, but Lord I be going there just the same

Salt Lake City, where it's so easy keeping straight
Salt Lake City, just really makes Des Moines look second rate
Ain't making no big deal about it
But I hear the Mormon girls are really great

Salt Lake City, hey, dig that Tabernacle Choir
Salt Lake City, yeah they be bound to take you higher
There just ain't no two ways about it, yes Lord they really light my fire

Well Brigham kicked a prairie dog, and he muttered in his beard
Said you've put me through some changes Lord but this one's really weird
The Lord just laughed at Brigham, said "you'd better get to work"
The next time I check in here, I want paradise on earth

Salt Lake City, where Brigham made the desert bloom
Salt Lake City, put a colour TV in every room
And they got them crazy Mormon chicks, yes I'll be going there real soon

Salt Lake City, hey feel that magic in the air
Salt Lake City, you know that's kind of why I like it there
Salt Lake City, well you know that's where I'm bound
Salt Lake City, I'm going down to Salt Lake town. - Bob Weir
 
Last edited:

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Did they change the title of the "Book of Mormon" to the "Book of Latter Day Saints"?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Did they change the title of the "Book of Mormon" to the "Book of Latter Day Saints"?
I googled that question, trying to find an answer. Got bored with it though after a few mins.

I did find this:

Deseret Book to phase out books with ‘Mormon’ or ‘LDS’ in titles. Move may impact offerings from other publishers.


Excerpt:

Customers at Deseret Book stores soon will see fewer offerings with the words “Mormon” and “LDS” in the title.

The bookstore chain and publishing company — owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' Deseret Management Corp. — says going forward it plans to publish only titles that meet the faith’s new naming guidelines.

“I don’t want to say we will never do anything with ‘LDS’ or ‘Mormon’ in it,” Laurel Day, Deseret Book’s vice president for product and branding, said Wednesday, "but we are committed to following the guidelines and respecting what is being asked of us.”
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I googled that question, trying to find an answer. Got bored with it though after a few mins.

<snip>



It sounds like the Book of Mormon is keeping it's name (per this NY Times article):


It also says this in the article though:

LDS.PNG
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Salt Lake City, that town of righteousness and fame
Salt Lake City, don't sound like much, but hell what's in a name?
Nobody ever sings about it, but Lord I be going there just the same

Salt Lake City, where it's so easy keeping straight
Salt Lake City, just really makes Des Moines look second rate
Ain't making no big deal about it
But I hear the Mormon girls are really great

Salt Lake City, hey, dig that Tabernacle Choir
Salt Lake City, yeah they be bound to take you higher
There just ain't no two ways about it, yes Lord they really light my fire

Well Brigham kicked a prairie dog, and he muttered in his beard
Said you've put me through some changes Lord but this one's really weird
The Lord just laughed at Brigham, said "you'd better get to work"
The next time I check in here, I want paradise on earth

Salt Lake City, where Brigham made the desert bloom
Salt Lake City, put a color TV in every room
And they got them crazy Mormon chicks, yes I'll be going there real soon

Salt Lake City, hey feel that magic in the air
Salt Lake City, you know that's kind of why I like it there
Salt Lake City, well you know that's where I'm bound
Salt Lake City, I'm going down to Salt Lake town - BOB WEIR
Back about 15 years ago I happened to be in Salt Lake City on business for several weeks. The day before I knew I was leaving I took off and just went through the city as a tourist, taking in as much as I could in a day.

I went for a tour in the Salt Lake Tabernacle, which is where the Mormon Tabernacle Choir does its thing. The acoustics in the building are mind-blowing. I saw in the back of the room (which holds 3500 people) and someone in front, on the stage, dropped a pin on the stage, and those of us in the back could clearly hear it. If you google "salt lake tabernacle acoustics" you'll see some information come up about it.
It has a reputation of being one of the most acoustically perfect buildings in the world.

It's worth the visit if you find yourself ever in Salt Lake City. After the tour of that and some other building, a couple of young teenage Mormon girls made a feeble attempt at recruiting me. But it wasn't hard sell like the Scientologists do.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
I've gotten to know some Mormon's well in recent years. Actually they know longer call themselves Mormons or refer to their Church as the Mormon Church. That's a change that occurred just within the past year, probably for marketing purposes. It is the " Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or LDS Church for short I believe.

While I'm sure they have some culty aspects about them there are some tremendous differences between them and Scientology. Their missionaries will actually recruit people who are flat out broke, something CoS would never do. I've witnessed it myself. Not only did they recruit them but they bought them clothes so they'd have something nice to wear to church for their Sunday service, and bought them food as well as they were in need of it.

While their church believes in tithing (donating a tenth of your income to the church), they don't attempt to extract every bit of money and credit you have. Plus they actually use at least some of that money to give back to members in need of help. If a Scientologist was out of work due to illness, the CoS would let you get evicted from your home before covering your mortgage payment or rent. I've seen the LDS church help people in those exact circumstances, covering a woman's expenses for several months when she was unable to. And it was not given as a loan, it was gifted to her.
Also, they help each other out and many develop artistic talent. Imagine Dragons, Osmonds are a few talented cult members.
Scientology has the Jive Aces and Chili Bean 🙄
 

Veda

Well-known member
Actually, he doesn't really say much about Mormonism in that discussion.

Among a few other subtopics, He covers a lot of history about the transition from Hubbard to Miscavige.
(IMO, what Chris covers in this talk is good info.)
I'm pretty "flexible" about choosing ESMBR categories, but don't understand how this fits into "Freezone, Indy, and other Flavors of Scientology."
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
I'm pretty "flexible" about choosing ESMBR categories, but don't understand how this fits into "Freezone, Indy, and other Flavors of Scientology."
Good question.

1. you might want to ask that question to @freethinker instead of me.
2. report to admin @PirateAndBum that this thread should be moved to another category.

My post was a response to the OP on this thread.
 
Last edited:

freethinker

Controversial
I'm pretty "flexible" about choosing ESMBR categories, but don't understand how this fits into "Freezone, Indy, and other Flavors of Scientology."
It doesn't really, but then it does because Chris is an Ex Scientologist who is talking to an ex Mormon about changes in the CoS in a certain time period. Chris has interviews with this guy on Chris's website. Chris has , I think, 3 interviews with this guy on his website.

If it really bothers you, it can be changed but not by me at this point. It can be switched to Cults in General which is where I intended to put it and instead clicked on this one and started the thread. The 2 categories are right next to each other.

If someone had brought this up before then I would have changed it within the 24 hours but it's past that now.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
My impression of the LDS church is that it does genuinely help some of its members in need in a way that CoS would never even think of doing.
It seems though that they've also got issues with covering up sexual and other abuse as well.

This story is an example of both, where the church helped someone, but also appeared to cover up abuse.


Excerpt:

Helen W. wasn’t born a Mormon, but she embraced the religion when she was 17 and it embraced her back.

When her son Alex was born with a heart defect and developmental disabilities, it was the Mormon Church that paid for his operations and treatments. When her second son, Zachary, was born eighteen months later, it was the members of her Martinsburg, West Virginia, congregation who helped find babysitters. And when Helen and her husband needed life guidance or wisdom, they turned to their bishop.

<snip>
Full Story at above link


Here's another story about sex abuse allegations:



And here's a link from a law firm representing families who've been abused:


Excerpt:

STORIES COMING OUT OF THE SHADOWS
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stretches across the world with over 16 million members and more than 30,000 congregations. The Church of Jesus Christ promotes caring for the poor and needy throughout the world. But, historically, the Mormon Church proves to neglect those in their church who have been sexually abused by fellow LDS members.

Over the years, numerous men, women, and youth have stepped forward, stating that they were victims of sexual abuse, and the elders in the Mormon Church they trusted with their story did nothing to contact authorities, confront the predator, or do anything beneficial for the victim. All their efforts were in preserving the reputation of the Mormon Church.
 

Harold#1

A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Does this prove that Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) are ignorant or that Scientology still has a positive image? From a Scientology publicity release:

Members of the community gathered at the Church of Scientology to affirm their belief in the right for everyone to believe and practice their faith as they see fit.

Members of the community gathered at the Church of Scientology to affirm their belief in the right for everyone to believe and practice their faith as they see fit.

Human Rights celebration at the Church of Scientology of Salt Lake City focused on religious freedom as a precious right.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, UNITED STATES, December 31, 2019 /EINPresswire.com/ -- Members of The Church of Scientology and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gathered at the Church of Scientology of Salt Lake City, Utah, to celebrate the anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR).

Steven Russell, a Salt Lake City attorney, talked about the increase of religious attacks and the need for religions to stand together. He ended his speech with the famous words of Pastor Martin Niemoller who was incarcerated in a Nazi concentration camp in WWII:

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

He was followed by Ms. Seretta Hart, President of the Relief Society for the local ward of the LDS Church. Ms. Hart described the role of the Relief Society and highlighted the important work carried out by members of her church in giving assistance to those in need.
 
Top