Between lives elapsed time?

D

Deleted member 51

Guest
I don't believe in any of that crap.
Yeh and that’s fine. You don’t try to force that on others AFAIK, either. I’m not personally into the past lives thing at all, but there is something to be said for cellular and genetic memory (if that’s even the right word for it), so who knows.

Beliefs can have therapeutic value, whether they are true or not. For example, positive thinking is a belief. Even though we can do computer analyses to prove scientifically that everything eventually turns to shit anyway, thinking positively is still GOOD.
 

Helena Handbasket

Active member
Reincarnation? Let me tell you about that.

First of all, nothing in this area can be proven, one way or the other, so I'm just not even going to try. This is what I know based on my own knowledge and experience, although I think there's a pretty darn good chance that everything I'm about to say is literally true.

If reincarnation IS true, how come so many of us don't remember previous lives? Just think or what happens BEFORE we reincarnate -- we die. That puts a damper on our being willing to remember.

Dualism is the idea that there are two parts to all of us -- body and spirit. They "travel together" over the course of a lifetime, but they are NOT one and the same. Without dualism, nothing anybody can say about reincarnation can make any sense. (Or theta-mest according to someone whose name I need not mention.)

When we die, the spirit is forceably ejected from the body, and in most cases, goes off to find a new baby body. When it finds one that's interesting, it puts attention on it, and that causes the body to draw the spirit in and capture it for life. (The ancients spoke of a "silver chain" that binds the spirit to the body. The exact nature of this mechanism is a mystery to me.)

The competition for bodies is actually quite fierce. It's not first-in, first-out or anything like that. Per you-know-who, those who begin to worry that there may not be a body for them in the next lifetime can get quite agitated. These are the ones who become pro-lifers, or as I like to say, More Babies For Everyone Whether They Want Them Or Not (MBFEWTWTON).

Most children start speaking their native language around 2 years of age. That's because they already know it from last time around. But those who incarnate into a country where they DON'T already know the language will take much longer to become comfortable with it -- perhaps a decade or so.

Death is a tragic event, no matter who you are or when it happens. Those who have just died are generally quite upset, and are not prepared to deal with what comes next. You need to have a good idea of what body you want for the next trip through life, and not be so overwhelmed you just take the first thing available. The best advice I can give to anyone when the time comes is to SHOP AROUND -- don't be in a hurry. A good option will come around sooner or later.

I won't give you a complete zhian'tara (an obscure Star Trek word) but three lifetimes ago I worked for the Union Pacific Railroad. As a result a have an affinity for anything to do with trains and for the Union Pacific in particular.

Getting back to the OP's original question, it took me just 5 days to "come back" the last time. But many take 6 weeks or longer. These are those who report to the between-lives implant station, which is a trip that takes 42 days to complete. Believe me, you're better off not going there. But it's easy to avoid if you know how.

While I don't think I'm going to convince anybody, I'm certain myself that this is all true. When I come back again, it will be in a body that doesn't have the problems this one has. If I can somehow carry over the knowledge I've accumulated in this lifetime, then I'll finally have a real good life.

Helena
 

Ed8

Active member
Reincarnation? Let me tell you about that.

First of all, nothing in this area can be proven, one way or the other, so I'm just not even going to try. This is what I know based on my own knowledge and experience, although I think there's a pretty darn good chance that everything I'm about to say is literally true.

If reincarnation IS true, how come so many of us don't remember previous lives? Just think or what happens BEFORE we reincarnate -- we die. That puts a damper on our being willing to remember.

Dualism is the idea that there are two parts to all of us -- body and spirit. They "travel together" over the course of a lifetime, but they are NOT one and the same. Without dualism, nothing anybody can say about reincarnation can make any sense. (Or theta-mest according to someone whose name I need not mention.)

When we die, the spirit is forceably ejected from the body, and in most cases, goes off to find a new baby body. When it finds one that's interesting, it puts attention on it, and that causes the body to draw the spirit in and capture it for life. (The ancients spoke of a "silver chain" that binds the spirit to the body. The exact nature of this mechanism is a mystery to me.)

The competition for bodies is actually quite fierce. It's not first-in, first-out or anything like that. Per you-know-who, those who begin to worry that there may not be a body for them in the next lifetime can get quite agitated. These are the ones who become pro-lifers, or as I like to say, More Babies For Everyone Whether They Want Them Or Not (MBFEWTWTON).

Most children start speaking their native language around 2 years of age. That's because they already know it from last time around. But those who incarnate into a country where they DON'T already know the language will take much longer to become comfortable with it -- perhaps a decade or so.

Death is a tragic event, no matter who you are or when it happens. Those who have just died are generally quite upset, and are not prepared to deal with what comes next. You need to have a good idea of what body you want for the next trip through life, and not be so overwhelmed you just take the first thing available. The best advice I can give to anyone when the time comes is to SHOP AROUND -- don't be in a hurry. A good option will come around sooner or later.

I won't give you a complete zhian'tara (an obscure Star Trek word) but three lifetimes ago I worked for the Union Pacific Railroad. As a result a have an affinity for anything to do with trains and for the Union Pacific in particular.

Getting back to the OP's original question, it took me just 5 days to "come back" the last time. But many take 6 weeks or longer. These are those who report to the between-lives implant station, which is a trip that takes 42 days to complete. Believe me, you're better off not going there. But it's easy to avoid if you know how.

While I don't think I'm going to convince anybody, I'm certain myself that this is all true. When I come back again, it will be in a body that doesn't have the problems this one has. If I can somehow carry over the knowledge I've accumulated in this lifetime, then I'll finally have a real good life.

Helena
Thank you, Helena. Thank you very much. At this point in time you are the only person who actually answered my question; and I appreciate that. I wish others would answer if they remember. :)
Ed
 

Bill

Well-known member
Thank you, Helena. Thank you very much. At this point in time you are the only person who actually answered my question; and I appreciate that. I wish others would answer if they remember. :)
Ed
You don't seem to understand who is here. These are ex-Scientologists (for the most part). No "OTs" are here. No one who is pretending to be "OT" is here. Many of the people here have stopped believing in "past lives" (if they ever did).

While I am one who had experiences that actually confirmed (to me) I've lived before, that's rare and unverifiable. My experiences had NOTHING to do with Scientology or Dianetics and those "technologies" are pretty useless (in my opinion).

So, what do you expect the response would be upon asking people who do not believe in past lives about past lives? Logically, you'd expect to get jokes and amusement.

You would get better responses from Buddhists.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
@Reyne Mayer

We’ve had the “Are past lives real?” discussions here and at the old ESMB many times. You are not stating anything new. It’s been discussed to death.

It’s part of some people’s personal belief system. Why does that bother you so much? It seems pretty petty to me to try to force your beliefs on what does or does not occur to strangers after death. Why should you be so worried about what people you don’t know do or don’t do after they’re dead? Since you’re so sure there’s no afterlife, it’s not like you should be concerned about them haunting you or returning as your mother or something.
the OP asked for some information, and i thought i'd point out that there's probably actually no useful or reliable way to get such specifics -- and particularly that ex-scientologists subjected to Hubbard's false memory induction techniques are not going to be a good source at all.

who says it bothers me? i already wrote that 'i'm not saying it disproves past lives and/or reincarnation'. my somewhat sympathetic reference to the Akashic Record theory should tell you that i have some interest in the subject.

actually, what i think is cause for concern is if belief in past lives causes people harm or suffer abuse, or harm others, in this life. in that regards i think the way the Church of Scientology uses the implantation of false past life memories, and then leverages them to get members, staff and particularly sea org to sacrifice their interests in this life including health and longevity, to submit to abuse and justify abusing others, is objectionable and dangerous -- and is probably the closest thing that exists to brainwashing. though that's obviously apart from the OP's question.
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
the OP asked for some information, and i thought i'd point out that there's probably actually no useful or reliable way to get such specifics -- and particularly that ex-scientologists subjected to Hubbard's false memory induction techniques are not going to be a good source at all.

who says it bothers me? i already wrote that 'i'm not saying it disproves past lives and/or reincarnation'. my somewhat sympathetic reference to the Akashic Record theory should tell you that i have some interest in the subject.

actually, what i think is cause for concern is if belief in past lives causes people harm or suffer abuse, or harm others, in this life. in that regards i think the way the Church of Scientology uses the implantation of false past life memories, and then leverages them to get members, staff and particularly sea org to sacrifice their interests in this life including health and longevity, to submit to abuse and justify abusing others, is objectionable and dangerous -- and is probably the closest thing that exists to brainwashing. though that's obviously apart from the OP's question.
No disagreement from me at all on that!

Good post, thanks for explaining.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Yeh and that’s fine. You don’t try to force that on others AFAIK, either. I’m not personally into the past lives thing at all, but there is something to be said for cellular and genetic memory (if that’s even the right word for it), so who knows.

Beliefs can have therapeutic value, whether they are true or not. For example, positive thinking is a belief. Even though we can do computer analyses to prove scientifically that everything eventually turns to shit anyway, thinking positively is still GOOD.
i think that's all fair enough.

being somewhat sympathetic to the general subject, i'll also point out that the enduring mystery and miracle of phenomenon such as how monarch butterflies migrate and navigate, suggest that there may be something like species memory that science will ultimately be able to pin down.

i guess i'll add that if you want to believe in some such thing, i think the most reasonable and supportable theory is a collective model. i don't think it's an accident that Hubbard chose a very ego-centric model in which he and his followers/protegees could claim to have been various historic and intergallactic grand poobahs in past lives, and as noted elsewhere i think that can be unhealthy and even dangerous.
 

Irayam

Well-known member
As there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to calculate this time spent between two lives, as far as it exists.
It could well be that thetan is obliged or chooses to incarnate again at a point in time that is for us a million years before or after our "present".
And since there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to rely on the estimate made by the person who "returns" either.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
@Reyne Mayer

It would be interesting to see how some believers would explain 2 people (who are currently alive at the same time) who both claim to have been Cleopatra in a past lifetime. :LOL:
In Hubbardism/Scientology it's "explained" that people merely associated in any way with the famous person assume the "valence" in scn lingo or identity in King's English of the famous person. Just saying.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
In Hubbardism/Scientology it's "explained" that people merely associated in any way with the famous person assume the "valence" in scn lingo or identity in King's English of the famous person. Just saying.
Exactly. All, or at least most, of the whole track up to OTVIII is dub-in or something per Scientology.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
As there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to calculate this time spent between two lives, as far as it exists.
It could well be that thetan is obliged or chooses to incarnate again at a point in time that is for us a million years before or after our "present".
And since there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to rely on the estimate made by the person who "returns" either.
It's along these lines that proves that Scientology is completely false.

If it were real then the whole story that Ron has borne this responsibility for too long is erroneous. First of all, being at Cause over Time, Ron could go back to the beginning of the Track at any time or at any time and number of times. Also, being at Cause over Matter and Space he could be in any number of spaces at the any number of times with any amount of matter that he chose so he could be in any place at any time an infinite number of times and duplicate his body any number of times...blah...blah...blah...

This means that everyone having to get trained to take on the sheer number of cases is really just factoring MEST into the equation because it's all a consideration - right?

So Ron could go to the beginning of the Track and individually train and audit everyone - rendering the whole physical universe episode complete Dev-T.

Since this hasn't happened then the whole thing is a complete joke.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
As there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to calculate this time spent between two lives, as far as it exists.
It could well be that thetan is obliged or chooses to incarnate again at a point in time that is for us a million years before or after our "present".
And since there is no time outside of MEST, it is not possible to rely on the estimate made by the person who "returns" either.
I was about to say the same or similar thing. Concepts like Heaven, Valhalla and numerous other concepts would need to exist in another "dimension".

Also, if I accept that the universe is over 13 billion years old then estimating a "return time" in earth years brings up the prospect of tens or hundreds of thousands of lifetimes, a sort of treadmill and a rather dizzying prospect. There are simpler concepts.
 
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Bill

Well-known member
I was about to say the same or similar thing. Concepts like Heaven, Valhalla and numerous other concepts would need to exist in another "dimension".

Also, if I accept that the universe is over 13 billion years old then estimating a "return time" in earth years brings up the prospect of tens or hundreds of thousands of lifetimes, a sort of treadmill and a rather dizzying prospect. There are simpler concepts.
This brings up another thing that bugged me:

Dating things is very important in Scientology. You date when the "incident" occurred, you find the "duration" ... and everything is always in "Earth years", "Earth days", "Earth hours, minutes, seconds".

But, most of these alleged "incidents" are NOT on Earth. According to Scientology dogma, your existence was quadrillions of years -- how has Earth time have any bearing, let alone be so important?
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
But, most of these alleged "incidents" are NOT on Earth. According to Scientology dogma, your existence was quadrillions of years -- how has Earth time have any bearing, let alone be so important?
Legit astronomers use Earth Years in all their publications when discussing events they date to well before the origin of Earth or even the origin of this Milky Way galaxy. Their distance unit the light-year (the distance light travels in a year at 186,282 miles per second) is based on a standardized Earth Year, too.
 
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Helena Handbasket

Active member
I was about to say the same or similar thing. Concepts like Heaven, Valhalla and numerous other concepts would need to exist in another "dimension".

Also, if I accept that the universe is over 13 billion years old then estimating a "return time" in earth years brings up the prospect of tens or hundreds of thousands of lifetimes, a sort of treadmill and a rather dizzying prospect. There are simpler concepts.
That's why the Buddhists call it "the endless cycle of birth and death".

Helena
 
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Helena Handbasket

Active member
Thank you, Helena. Thank you very much. At this point in time you are the only person who actually answered my question; and I appreciate that. I wish others would answer if they remember. :)
Ed
It's amazing how many people tend to answer the wrong question. For example, if you were in a railway station and you asked somebody when the restaurant opens, there's about a 1 in 3 chance they'll ask you, "where do you want to go?"

A common way people find a wrong question to answer is to let you ask them a question, then they grill you on why are you asking that -- why do you want to know what you have asked so they can determine your real question and then tell you how to accomplish that instead. When they finally do answer you, they give an answer that is totally useless (but they think they've done you a great favor).

Getting back to the original question, many people don't believe in previous lives (or invalidate them) or don't remember the between-lives area or have no idea how long it was that they spent there; so don't be too hard on them.

Helena
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
i'm not saying it disproves past lives and/or reincarnation, just that it shows that most if not all claims of 'memories' of such are just essentially false memories of one sort or another
No, it doesn't show anything at all. Because all you have presented are a bunch of pseudo-scientific claims which fall into the category of mere explanation and which remain unverified and unverifiable (same as Ron Hubbard's claims about past lives).
 
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Bill

Well-known member
Legit astronomers use Earth Years in all their publications when discussing events they date to well before the origin of Earth or even the origin of this Milky Way galaxy. Their distance unit the light-year (the distance light travels in a year at 186,282 miles per second) is based on a standardized Earth Year, too.
Well, yes. My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek -- but why not tell the auditor "Oh, that was two million zorch years ago"? "Duration? It was a couple of bibble-flaps" :hysterical:
 
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