It's easy to talk to a Scientologist as long as you avoid talking about Scientology. LolAn exchange between a Scientologist and non Scientologists would be healthy.
The trouble is finding a Scientologist willing to communicate.
I'm writing this as a former Sea Org Technical Division guy at ASHO Foundation (SHSB Course Admin and Tech Training Films I/C before GAoT).When you do TR 0 you can go in some kind of light trance but going in some kind of light trance is also kind of a normal thing for both of us.
I'm writing this as a former Sea Org Technical Division guy at ASHO Foundation (SHSB Course Admin and Tech Training Films I/C before GAoT).
Every single version of the HCO Bulletin (originally dated 12 April 1961) Training Drills, Training Drills Modernized, Training Drills Re-Modernized specifies that the coach of TR-0 Confront is to flunk "anaten" ( attenuated attention aka trance state) and restart the drill. In a Standard Tech courseroom, one is not going get a supervisor pass on TR-0 until they can do it without entering a trance state at all.
.While what you wrote may be part of "standard tech", I seriously question whether supervisors are always able to discern that a student is in a light trance state. I'm pretty sure it happened to me regularly while doing TRs are several different organizations, including while I did my Pro-TR's Course at Flag back in 1988. I never got flunked for being anaten ever. And as a coach, I never flunked another student for that purpose unless there were obvious physical signs. But I'm pretty sure someone can be in a light trance state with no obvious physical signs.
I'm writing this as a former Sea Org Technical Division guy at ASHO Foundation (SHSB Course Admin and Tech Training Films I/C before GAoT). Every single version of the HCO Bulletin (originally dated 12 April 1961) Training Drills, Training Drills Modernized, Training Drills Re-Modernized specifies that the coach of TR-0 Confront is to flunk "anaten" ( attenuated attention AKA trance state) and restart the drill. In a Standard Tech courseroom, one is not going get a supervisor pass on TR-0 until they can do it without entering a trance state at all.
Also happened to me.While what you wrote may be part of "standard tech", I seriously question whether supervisors are always able to discern that a student is in a
light trance state.
I'm pretty sure it happened to me regularly while doing TRs are several different organizations, including while I did my Pro-TR's Course at Flag back in 1988. I never got flunked for being anaten ever. And as a coach, I never flunked another student for that purpose unless there were obvious physical signs. But I'm pretty sure someone can be in a light trance state with no obvious physical signs.
Indeed, that would be very strange to do in public.We didn't do the other TRs. It would be too ackward in a public space.
If you are 100% focused on something it is a kind of a trance state. You are not anaten, you are very much aware. But everything else than the subject you are concerned about is kind of closed off. It is similar to children playing and being totally concerned about the game.I'm writing this as a former Sea Org Technical Division guy at ASHO Foundation (SHSB Course Admin and Tech Training Films I/C before GAoT).
Every single version of the HCO Bulletin (originally dated 12 April 1961) Training Drills, Training Drills Modernized, Training Drills Re-Modernized specifies that the coach of TR-0 Confront is to flunk "anaten" ( attenuated attention AKA trance state) and restart the drill. In a Standard Tech courseroom, one is not going get a supervisor pass on TR-0 until they can do it without entering a trance state at all.
Well, if we get to make up our own definitions for psychological terminology, no real discussion can occur. So, I will go with the American Psychological Association official online dictionary says for trance:If you are 100% focused on something it is a kind of a trance state. You are not anaten, you are very much aware.
So, trance as defined by APA definitely involves anaten (as defined in Scientology) and is absolutely an unwanted condition in a Scientology auditor during a session. Therefore it merits a flunk during the TR-0 drill.APA said:trance
n.
1. an altered state of consciousness characterized by decreased awareness of and responsiveness to stimuli and an apparent loss of voluntary power.
2. a state brought about by hypnotic induction or autosuggestion and characterized by susceptibility to suggestion. Hypnotized persons may report a light trance, in which they might accept suggestions that, for example, they cannot open their eyes or they lack sensation in a limb, or a medium trance, in which they may experience posthypnotic amnesia and posthypnotic suggestion. A deep trance might be characterized by an inability to open the eyes without affecting the trance, complete somnambulism, positive and negative posthypnotic hallucinations, and hyperesthesia (excessive sensitivity). The reality of such trance states has been the subject of much debate. Also called hypnotic trance.
There is not widespread agreement within the field of Psychology on definitions related to hypnotism and the APA frequently has changed the definition they provide. You would get a better definition if you consulted a hypnotist on the subject of hypnotism and trance states.Well, if we get to make up our own definitions for psychological terminology, no real discussion can occur. So, I will go with the American Psychological Association official online dictionary says for trance:
So, trance as defined by APA definitely involves anaten (as defined in Scientology) and is absolutely an unwanted condition in a Scientology auditor during a session. Therefore it merits a flunk during the TR-0 drill.
The notion that someone can be in a such a trance state without any visible indication - as put forth by certain critics over the years - contradicts this official APA definition. Neither is that notion supported by any peer-reviewed psychological studies that I have ever seen.
We're not willy-nilly making up our own definitions.Well, if we get to make up our own definitions for psychological terminology, no real discussion can occur.
"Characterized by suggestibility to suggestion..."So, I will go with the American Psychological Association official online dictionary says for trance:
It's amusing how you go back and forth between a group - regarded by Hubbard, as secretly controlled by extraterrestrial "psychs" - and Hubbard's instructions to Scientologists. How dumb do you think we are? Oh that's right, you think we're "wogs," "DBs," and "SPs."So, trance as defined by APA definitely involves anaten (as defined in Scientology) and is absolutely an unwanted condition in a Scientology auditor during a session. Therefore it merits a flunk during the TR-0 drill.
But it is, often, noticeable, as is the amoral expedience of some Scientologists when they're trying to trick "homo saps" (Hubbard's term for human beings who are not Scientologists).The notion that someone can be in a such a trance state without any visible indication - as put forth by certain critics over the years - contradicts this official APA definition. Neither is that notion supported by any peer-reviewed psychological studies that I have ever seen.
The old idea is that Scientology procedures, and handling, "blow off" unconsciousness and reactivity, which sounds good, until one realizes that Scientology installs its own "stimulus response mechanisms," and programming, into the "vacuum" left by "clearing."As a comms course super I noticed that people would inititally look lightly tranced but that it would blow off as they did TR0 longer. It's part of the process, people eventually come into present time which is beneficial. I just let them do the drill.
It would only deserve a flunk if it was being done on purpose as a way of avoiding confronting.
Hey man, I'm just repeating what the HCOB coaching instructions state. In the original 1961 HCOB Train Drills for TR-0 it says:As a comms course super I noticed that people would inititally look lightly tranced but that it would blow off as they did TR0 longer. It's part of the process, people eventually come into present time which is beneficial. I just let them do the drill.
It would only deserve a flunk if it was being done on purpose as a way of avoiding confronting.
Ron Hubbard said:TRAINING STRESS: ( ... ) Coach may speak only if student goes anaten (dope off). Student is confronting the body, thetan and bank of preclear.
So there was no flunking at all, originally. How about that ?Ron Hubbard said:PATTER: When TR 0 is coached, coach uses „Start“ to begin the coaching period. He uses „Flunk“ when the student shows any manifestation of non-confront, indicates what the non-confront is, and uses „Start“ to begin the drill again. „That’s it“ is used to terminate the drill.
That videoThe word trance has more than one definition. One is negative, one is positive.
Trance: "Detachment from one's physical surroundings, as in contemplation or daydreaming," definition two, from the Internet.
Link to table of contents. See the chapter on Trance from Little Essays Towards Truth.
In his book Magick in Theory and Practice, Aleister Crowley wrote: "The whole and sole object of all true Magickal training is to become free of every kind of limitation."
During late 1952, Hubbard gave a series of lectures where he referred to Aleister Crowley: "Our whole activity tends to make an individual completely independent of any limitation... Old Aleister Crowley had some interesting things to say about this..."
In 1954, Volney Mathison, who gave Hubbard the e-meter, with which he worked mischief. Volney had this to say about Hubbard:
"...what we really observed was what we observed... that we always observed to observe..." L. Ron Hubbard assured his followers.
Listen to the video below:
Notice that she asks permission.
Hubbard used both the negative and positive type of trance.
Did he ask permission?