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The Underground Bunker
Apostate Alex: The tide is turning against Scientology with UK officials
Tony Ortega
Apr 13, 2025
[Apostate Alex and Austen Waite visit East Grinstead Town Council]
Former London Scientology staffer Alex ‘Apostate Alex’ Barnes-Ross reports on a sea-change he’s noticed after a big week in his continuing activism…
I don’t mean it lightly when I say this week was significant in the world of fighting Scientology’s abuses here in the UK.
For context, in April last year, the Daily Mail published a double-page exposé on what it described as the “cozy relationship” Scientology had established with East Grinstead Town Council (EGTC) where Saint Hill, their UK headquarters, is located.
Photos showed then-Mayor Frazer Visser posing with Tom Cruise on the red carpet at a Mission Impossible film premiere, as well as an appearance on stage at the 2023 IAS event to give a speech and accept a £50,000 charity cheque, and local residents were quite rightly worried about whether Scientology were exerting undue influence on local government.
When I approached the mayor with my concerns, I was asked to “refrain from discussing them on social media or public platforms” and when a group of ex-Scientologists used a council meeting in January 2024 to call for accountability, the entire public questions section — and all mention of Scientology — was redacted from the official meeting minutes and the video recording they uploaded to their official YouTube channel.
A month later, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request I had submitted seeking emails between Scientology and the council, I was issued a letter which labeled me a “vexatious bully,” and EGTC refused to hand over the documents. I escalated the matter to the UK Information Commissioner, who eventually ruled my request was not vexatious and demanded the council comply. Meanwhile, Visser’s mayoral term had come to an end, and despite the public backlash his replacement Steve Ody agreed to turn on Saint Hill’s 2024 Christmas Lights — but the event was excluded from the official list of mayoral engagements due to it being “a last minute invitation by phone and it did not come through the office.”
Add into that the fact that a number of town councillors appear in Scientology propaganda films on their website and Scientology TV praising their “close relationship,” and Saint Hill’s work in the community, and we have ourselves what appears to be a heavily safe-pointed local government which unashamedly censors members of the public who are in any way critical of Scientology.
Nonetheless, over the last year I have worked tirelessly to try and educate councillors on the abuse that goes on at Saint Hill, and this week we saw the first sign that the tides are changing.
On Monday, I attended a council meeting along with fellow ex-Scientologist and former Saint Hill staffer Stephen Jones to ask a question — and from the get-go, things felt different.
[Alex and Austen Waite]
When we arrived, we were the only members of the public present apart from Scientology's UK PR representative Liz Ostermann, who is a familiar face at these meetings. It was instantly apparent that a number of councillors were seeking to avoid awkward conversation with Ostermann, and it was fascinating to see how a handful of them actually went out of their way to introduce themselves to Stephen and me, shake our hands and offer us a very British cup of tea or coffee.
This may seem like a small detail that could be easily overlooked, but to me this was an indication there has been a slow — but monumental — shift in councillors' perception of us as a group. A year ago, we were told to shut up, stop asking questions, and I was labelled a vexatious bully. Now, the very same people who have been desperately avoiding so much as eye contact with us are now making a discernible effort to greet and welcome us — and dodge Scientology’s representative.
“Firstly, I would like to thank the mayor for accepting my question despite not relating to an item on today’s agenda.” I started my question. “I’m pleased to see the agenda note that members of the public now have two minutes to speak at these meetings, and I intend to make the most of my allocated time today to provide some brief context before asking my question.” Audible chuckles are heard throughout the room.
“In order to work at Scientology’s UK headquarters at Saint Hill, Scientologists are required to sign one billion-year contracts dedicating not just this lifetime, but all future lives to working for the church...”
The town clerk interrupts. “That doesn't relate to the question,” she says.
“It does, I'm getting there. Just give me, I'm allowed two minutes, I'm being very very brief.” I reply. Slightly flustered, not sure if this interjection would eat in to my allocated time or whether the clock had been momentarily paused, I powered on, determined to make my point.
“I myself once signed one of these contracts, though fortunately I left before I was able to complete the full length of my contracted term.” Once again, chuckles are heard throughout the room and as I look up, I see a couple of councillors even smiling at my remark — again, a far cry from the reactions I’ve seen in the past and a positive sign things have started to change at EGTC.
“These staff members are known collectively as the Sea Organization and they are provided housing and food in return for a lifetime of service. Sea Org staff are expected to work 14 to 16 hour days, 7 days a week with no time off and are paid a weekly stipend of just £50. Stephen Jones — who is here with me today — was one of these Sea Org members who worked at Saint Hill.” Stephen waves, the councillors smile at him.
“As a result of the commitment to working for the organization, Scientology keep a tight grip on the lives of its Sea Org staff. Only certain approved executives are permitted to engage with outsiders and leaving the Saint Hill compound will only be approved if you are performing well in your job — and certainly won’t be allowed unaccompanied. By design, Sea Org staff have limited contact with the outside world and any personal devices they are allowed to have are closely monitored.
“In Scientology, mental health is seen as a conspiracy funded by Big Pharma, and the tragic death of Lisa McPherson in 1995 demonstrates how Scientologists are heavily discouraged from seeking external help if they face any form of mental health challenges.”
A brief sigh of relief — I’m almost there. I’ve made the key points I wanted to get across and now on to the question itself.
“At the annual town meeting we heard about the fantastic work being done by a local resident to promote mental wellness in East Grinstead. What are the council doing to promote mental health services and ensure they are inclusive and accessible to everybody — especially, for example, to Sea Org staff at Saint Hill, who may not otherwise be aware of the support available to them in the local area?"
In the past when I’ve asked questions at East Grinstead Town Council meetings, by this point most councillors either have their heads in their hands or are laser-focused on the desk in front of them, desperately trying to avoid eye contact with anybody out of fear it might suggest they agree with my point.
But Monday was different. As I glanced around the room, I noticed a handful of councillors actually nodding in agreement. Maybe our message is finally getting through!
The mayor provided a response in which he mentioned there are other residents in the town who also do not have access to the Internet, and although the town council themselves do not provide mental health services, they do actively promote them in the form of flyers and posters on notice boards at the library.
His response missed the mark — the most vulnerable Sea Org staff who are most likely in need of mental health support will simply not be allowed to leave the Saint Hill property. It’s all very well and good putting posters up in the library, but that won't reach the people whose lives are intimately controlled in every facet by the Church of Scientology.
Nonetheless, I was able to use my two minutes to educate councillors on what life is like at Saint Hill — and they are now aware of the tragic death of Lisa McPherson, and the fact that Sea Org staff have restricted access to the Internet, things I’m not sure they were even aware of up until this point.
And then on Thursday, I was invited — along with other protestors — to attend a meeting at Mid-Sussex District Council (MSDC) to discuss Scientology’s application for a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO), which seeks to ban demonstrations outside Saint Hill.
For our American readers, MSDC is the next tier up from East Grinstead Town Council, overseeing a larger geographic area and holding much greater authority on issues like planning, licensing, and local services.
As The Underground Bunker has previously reported, a lengthy process is currently underway to assess whether a ban on protesting should be put in place for the area directly outside Scientology’s UK headquarters, and council observers attended the IAS protest in October to monitor our activities. An evidence-gathering period then took place, during which protestors, local residents, and Scientologists were invited to submit statements, and MSDC have been hard at work over the last six months reviewing police body cam footage and live streams captured over the weekend.
If implemented, a PSPO would deal a major blow to activists in the UK — and could only be appealed by taking a lengthy and expensive case to the High Court. It presents a major threat to our freedom of speech and right to protest, and as such has required a substantial amount of time and energy to be invested by myself and other protestors behind the scenes in order to build a solid case for our defense.
Thursday’s meeting was an opportunity for council officers to meet with protestors in person for the first time and discuss the mountains of evidence they had been meticulously analyzing and ask us questions based on what they have seen. Scientology will also be given the same opportunity in due course and council officers will hear arguments from both sides before coming to a decision.
The meeting was minuted by an independent party, and I was advised they will be available to request through the Freedom of Information Act after a final decision has been made. But while the process is still ongoing I wouldn’t want to jeopardize our case by making too many details public.
However, I think it is important to note this was the first significant step in the PSPO process since the demonstration took place back in October. Four protestors were present at the meeting including Austen Waite, a teacher who featured alongside me in a recent article in The Observer after Scientology wrote to his employer in an unsuccessful attempt to get him fired for taking part in the IAS protest.
The council asked us questions about road safety, live streaming, our behaviour and perhaps most entertainingly, the toy doll we attached to a sign during the protest which Scientology complained caused them “alarm and distress.”
Read more :
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b75757b3-6984-4c89-9127-5f863a7ceced_640x480.jpeg
Apostate Alex: The tide is turning against Scientology with UK officials
Tony Ortega
Apr 13, 2025
[Apostate Alex and Austen Waite visit East Grinstead Town Council]
Former London Scientology staffer Alex ‘Apostate Alex’ Barnes-Ross reports on a sea-change he’s noticed after a big week in his continuing activism…
I don’t mean it lightly when I say this week was significant in the world of fighting Scientology’s abuses here in the UK.
For context, in April last year, the Daily Mail published a double-page exposé on what it described as the “cozy relationship” Scientology had established with East Grinstead Town Council (EGTC) where Saint Hill, their UK headquarters, is located.
Photos showed then-Mayor Frazer Visser posing with Tom Cruise on the red carpet at a Mission Impossible film premiere, as well as an appearance on stage at the 2023 IAS event to give a speech and accept a £50,000 charity cheque, and local residents were quite rightly worried about whether Scientology were exerting undue influence on local government.
When I approached the mayor with my concerns, I was asked to “refrain from discussing them on social media or public platforms” and when a group of ex-Scientologists used a council meeting in January 2024 to call for accountability, the entire public questions section — and all mention of Scientology — was redacted from the official meeting minutes and the video recording they uploaded to their official YouTube channel.
A month later, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request I had submitted seeking emails between Scientology and the council, I was issued a letter which labeled me a “vexatious bully,” and EGTC refused to hand over the documents. I escalated the matter to the UK Information Commissioner, who eventually ruled my request was not vexatious and demanded the council comply. Meanwhile, Visser’s mayoral term had come to an end, and despite the public backlash his replacement Steve Ody agreed to turn on Saint Hill’s 2024 Christmas Lights — but the event was excluded from the official list of mayoral engagements due to it being “a last minute invitation by phone and it did not come through the office.”
Add into that the fact that a number of town councillors appear in Scientology propaganda films on their website and Scientology TV praising their “close relationship,” and Saint Hill’s work in the community, and we have ourselves what appears to be a heavily safe-pointed local government which unashamedly censors members of the public who are in any way critical of Scientology.
Nonetheless, over the last year I have worked tirelessly to try and educate councillors on the abuse that goes on at Saint Hill, and this week we saw the first sign that the tides are changing.
On Monday, I attended a council meeting along with fellow ex-Scientologist and former Saint Hill staffer Stephen Jones to ask a question — and from the get-go, things felt different.
[Alex and Austen Waite]
When we arrived, we were the only members of the public present apart from Scientology's UK PR representative Liz Ostermann, who is a familiar face at these meetings. It was instantly apparent that a number of councillors were seeking to avoid awkward conversation with Ostermann, and it was fascinating to see how a handful of them actually went out of their way to introduce themselves to Stephen and me, shake our hands and offer us a very British cup of tea or coffee.
This may seem like a small detail that could be easily overlooked, but to me this was an indication there has been a slow — but monumental — shift in councillors' perception of us as a group. A year ago, we were told to shut up, stop asking questions, and I was labelled a vexatious bully. Now, the very same people who have been desperately avoiding so much as eye contact with us are now making a discernible effort to greet and welcome us — and dodge Scientology’s representative.
“Firstly, I would like to thank the mayor for accepting my question despite not relating to an item on today’s agenda.” I started my question. “I’m pleased to see the agenda note that members of the public now have two minutes to speak at these meetings, and I intend to make the most of my allocated time today to provide some brief context before asking my question.” Audible chuckles are heard throughout the room.
“In order to work at Scientology’s UK headquarters at Saint Hill, Scientologists are required to sign one billion-year contracts dedicating not just this lifetime, but all future lives to working for the church...”
The town clerk interrupts. “That doesn't relate to the question,” she says.
“It does, I'm getting there. Just give me, I'm allowed two minutes, I'm being very very brief.” I reply. Slightly flustered, not sure if this interjection would eat in to my allocated time or whether the clock had been momentarily paused, I powered on, determined to make my point.
“I myself once signed one of these contracts, though fortunately I left before I was able to complete the full length of my contracted term.” Once again, chuckles are heard throughout the room and as I look up, I see a couple of councillors even smiling at my remark — again, a far cry from the reactions I’ve seen in the past and a positive sign things have started to change at EGTC.
“These staff members are known collectively as the Sea Organization and they are provided housing and food in return for a lifetime of service. Sea Org staff are expected to work 14 to 16 hour days, 7 days a week with no time off and are paid a weekly stipend of just £50. Stephen Jones — who is here with me today — was one of these Sea Org members who worked at Saint Hill.” Stephen waves, the councillors smile at him.
“As a result of the commitment to working for the organization, Scientology keep a tight grip on the lives of its Sea Org staff. Only certain approved executives are permitted to engage with outsiders and leaving the Saint Hill compound will only be approved if you are performing well in your job — and certainly won’t be allowed unaccompanied. By design, Sea Org staff have limited contact with the outside world and any personal devices they are allowed to have are closely monitored.
“In Scientology, mental health is seen as a conspiracy funded by Big Pharma, and the tragic death of Lisa McPherson in 1995 demonstrates how Scientologists are heavily discouraged from seeking external help if they face any form of mental health challenges.”
A brief sigh of relief — I’m almost there. I’ve made the key points I wanted to get across and now on to the question itself.
“At the annual town meeting we heard about the fantastic work being done by a local resident to promote mental wellness in East Grinstead. What are the council doing to promote mental health services and ensure they are inclusive and accessible to everybody — especially, for example, to Sea Org staff at Saint Hill, who may not otherwise be aware of the support available to them in the local area?"
In the past when I’ve asked questions at East Grinstead Town Council meetings, by this point most councillors either have their heads in their hands or are laser-focused on the desk in front of them, desperately trying to avoid eye contact with anybody out of fear it might suggest they agree with my point.
But Monday was different. As I glanced around the room, I noticed a handful of councillors actually nodding in agreement. Maybe our message is finally getting through!
The mayor provided a response in which he mentioned there are other residents in the town who also do not have access to the Internet, and although the town council themselves do not provide mental health services, they do actively promote them in the form of flyers and posters on notice boards at the library.
His response missed the mark — the most vulnerable Sea Org staff who are most likely in need of mental health support will simply not be allowed to leave the Saint Hill property. It’s all very well and good putting posters up in the library, but that won't reach the people whose lives are intimately controlled in every facet by the Church of Scientology.
Nonetheless, I was able to use my two minutes to educate councillors on what life is like at Saint Hill — and they are now aware of the tragic death of Lisa McPherson, and the fact that Sea Org staff have restricted access to the Internet, things I’m not sure they were even aware of up until this point.
And then on Thursday, I was invited — along with other protestors — to attend a meeting at Mid-Sussex District Council (MSDC) to discuss Scientology’s application for a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO), which seeks to ban demonstrations outside Saint Hill.
For our American readers, MSDC is the next tier up from East Grinstead Town Council, overseeing a larger geographic area and holding much greater authority on issues like planning, licensing, and local services.
As The Underground Bunker has previously reported, a lengthy process is currently underway to assess whether a ban on protesting should be put in place for the area directly outside Scientology’s UK headquarters, and council observers attended the IAS protest in October to monitor our activities. An evidence-gathering period then took place, during which protestors, local residents, and Scientologists were invited to submit statements, and MSDC have been hard at work over the last six months reviewing police body cam footage and live streams captured over the weekend.
If implemented, a PSPO would deal a major blow to activists in the UK — and could only be appealed by taking a lengthy and expensive case to the High Court. It presents a major threat to our freedom of speech and right to protest, and as such has required a substantial amount of time and energy to be invested by myself and other protestors behind the scenes in order to build a solid case for our defense.
Thursday’s meeting was an opportunity for council officers to meet with protestors in person for the first time and discuss the mountains of evidence they had been meticulously analyzing and ask us questions based on what they have seen. Scientology will also be given the same opportunity in due course and council officers will hear arguments from both sides before coming to a decision.
The meeting was minuted by an independent party, and I was advised they will be available to request through the Freedom of Information Act after a final decision has been made. But while the process is still ongoing I wouldn’t want to jeopardize our case by making too many details public.
However, I think it is important to note this was the first significant step in the PSPO process since the demonstration took place back in October. Four protestors were present at the meeting including Austen Waite, a teacher who featured alongside me in a recent article in The Observer after Scientology wrote to his employer in an unsuccessful attempt to get him fired for taking part in the IAS protest.
The council asked us questions about road safety, live streaming, our behaviour and perhaps most entertainingly, the toy doll we attached to a sign during the protest which Scientology complained caused them “alarm and distress.”
Read more :
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b75757b3-6984-4c89-9127-5f863a7ceced_640x480.jpeg
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