Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building and proves gravity exists

guanoloco

As-Wased
Sneaks reminds me of all those lawyer docs we signed before every course and auditing action that claimed in legalese that the church of Scientology made no claims, specific or otherwise, after you just sat through hours of regging, D of Ps and R-factors from C/Ses promising just the opposite...mainly that X was going to terminatedly handle Y ruin.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
What was Frank Suarez told by Scientology Inc. that, ultimately, drove him to suicide?

Did Scientology Inc. tell him: "Well, Scientology worked on us, and we're OT. If you're not, it wasn't the tech that failed. You failed."
There were a lot of "illegal PCs" who were told they would never get on the OT levels because of drugs or psych treatment.

I could see the notification creating such massive depression that the person would decide "next lifetime will be better", and ending his life.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
There were a lot of "illegal PCs" who were told they would never get on the OT levels because of drugs or psych treatment.

I could see the notification creating such massive depression that the person would decide "next lifetime will be better", and ending his life.
Or being gay, or having a father who is an SP or having something "weird" in their history or ethics folder.
Wait, some aren't even told that, just kept on a "one day, you are not ready now" kinda forever hold.
 

Veda

Well-known member
There were a lot of "illegal PCs" who were told they would never get on the OT levels because of drugs or psych treatment.

I could see the notification creating such massive depression that the person would decide "next lifetime will be better", and ending his life.
Look like he did all the OT levels.

Frank Suarez was New OT 8, had numerous awards for humongous donations to idle orgs, did all three "Ls," and "Super Power."

View attachment 9687
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
There were a lot of "illegal PCs" who were told they would never get on the OT levels because of drugs or psych treatment.

I could see the notification creating such massive depression that the person would decide "next lifetime will be better", and ending his life.
Or being gay, or having a father who is an SP or having something "weird" in their history or ethics folder.
Wait, some aren't even told that, just kept on a "one day, you are not ready now" kinda forever hold.
I don't think they tell people these days that you will never do the OT levels. They just say there's something to handle first. Of course there's always going to be a next thing to handle and they won't ever let them onto the OT levels, but they don't tell them that.
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
The full truth usually takes time, it's true; I agree we shouldn't say anything with certainty, or speak it as truth until the cause of death is invesigated and made offical. I don't really appreciate the way Oretga frames this as perhaps he didn't believe the laws of gravity applied to him, as opposed to highlighting the extreme psychological issues that could potentially occur that deep into Scn training/practice, it's cold and shallow... I spoke with a family member of his on Thursday who referred to it as a suicide, FWIW (I believe this to be the case)
Yeh, the way Tony phrased it was cold and probably only added to the pain of friends and family. That was very unprofessional and insensitive. Frank might have been a wonderful man who was loved and loving to many. We don’t know.

I think Karen #1’s idea that he intentionally suicided publicly there to send an F you message to COS may be right, but who can say? We do know Frank was minimally clinically depressed if he felt it was no use to continue living, we know the cult probably knew it was serious but did nothing to get him professional help and probably discouraged it, too, and we know they’ll hide whatever might implicate the cult because that’s what the Church of Scientology does.

Poor man. Just from this brief, it seems he tried and failed to find his own happiness in life.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Wait, some aren't even told that, just kept on a "one day, you are not ready now" kinda forever hold.
That's what happened to my wife (minor psych history). About every couple of years we would be given the excuse "get another sec check, maybe it will be approved", till finally I said "fuck this".
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
That's what happened to my wife (minor psych history). About every couple of years we would be given the excuse "get another sec check, maybe it will be approved", till finally I said "fuck this".
Yep, that's exactly one of these common reasons for these "holds": homosexuality, previous contact/employment in psychiatry/psychology, etc.

I *think* they even did it to the psychological profiler dude.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Usual Disclaimer: I am making no claims as to the physical universe accuracy of anything stated in the OT Course materials nor am I making any claims that the OT Levels actually bestow any particular spiritual benefits or states.



There is nothing in any of the Ron Hubbard OT Course materials (which Robin Scott and others have leaked to the Internet) that states any of the sections of that course so far released is supposed to bestow any particular psychic powers (ESP, Precognition, Psychokinesis, Remote Viewing, etc), supernatural abilities or "OT powers" (an enemy critic fiction). The last seven (7) sections of the OT Course were never piloted or released and and Section VIII is highly questionable as to authenticity.

Because the OT Course was never finished nobody can possibly have completed Ron Hubbard's OT Course. Because of that, no member of the Co$ and no member of any of the Standard Tech independent factions has ever attested to "Operating Thetan" or been issued a certificate saying so. On this one point, the critics are quite correct: there are no OT's.

Nominated for inclusion in the TOP 25 WORST OBNOSIS EVENTS EVER by a Scientologist or Indie.

For 71 years Scientologists have been buying and selling OT powers.

It started in the early 1950s and appears in all the books published during that period which are still touted as the fundamentals ("Basics") of all of their "sacred scripture".

OT powers. It's in thousands of Hubbard's audio lectures, tech bulletins, promo pieces and on the Grade Chart too.

R-FACTOR: Scientology sells OT powers. Miraculous OT powers. Powers that defy the laws of physics and science.

How you don't know that is, in itself, a miracle.

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Hubbard started making vast "OT" claims for his "tech" in 1952. He never stopped, clarified, corrected or modified his claims. You are being disingenuous and/or are extremely ignorant of Hubbard's claims.

Oh, I just saw your post--after I just now posted (directly above) virtually the same exact thing

When we get back on Bridge, we should consider twinning on our retread of the OT levels---you know, the ones that Ron assured Sneakster DO NOT PROMOTE OT powers! LOL.

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Interesting comment, I must say.

That's ALL that Hubbard talked about in many lectures and books since 1952. I remember hearing a bunch
of stuff about all those powers. L12 was guaranteed to bestow the ability to have full perception while exterior.
It was also promised in 1952-53. What the hell happened? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pray tell.

.
Funny. Since February (on this thread) you, Bill and I all posted virtually identical replies to Sneakster's wacky-woo claim that Scientology is not selling OT powers.

Although having departed from Scientology long ago, it still comes as a shocker how frightfully certain and wrong the Hubbardian gaslighting is in cult devotes.

If I were a legislator, I'd propose a law where Scientologists had to identify themselves as a member of that cult before talking to wogs, LOL. Sort of a consumer protection safeguard.

The new law would also require them to further identify themselves as Hubbardian acceptable-truthists—by wearing RED FRIGHT WIGS styled like Ron's long-locks era and beginning each conversation where they are are intending to give an r-factor laden lecture by announcing: "Alright! What's the date?!"




.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Standard Disclaimer: I am making no claims as to the factual accuracy or possible spiritual benefits of Ron Hubbard's OT Course.



Neither. I am in possession of an electronic copy (PDF) of the full set of Ron Hubbard course materials (including a version of OT VIII) which have been available online for free for more than a decade. There is no conflict between Hubbard's speculations or claims about the state of Operating Thetan made in the 1950's or 1960's and any statement I made above on this thread.

The full fifteen section OT Course (as per the 1978 LRH ED) was supposed to create an Operating Thetan by the end of it, sure. But - for whatever reasons - we never got sections IX-XV (and VIII is very questionable at this point), so Hubbard's OT Course is very far from complete.

Whether or not (a) Operating Thetan (as described in the 1950's and 1960's) is even possible and (b) Hubbard's notions about "supernatural" abilities one might stably regain from the full OT Course were accurate, Hubbard's HCO Bulletins and other materials in the available OT Course sections do not address any OT Super-powers with one exception:

Original OT VII (not Solo NOTS) was supposed to rehabilitate a thetan's ability to project an intention. That could be regarded as a "psychic" ability. The materials I have are not in HCOB form and appear to be a recreation, but among other things, they contain exercises in which pre-OT is supposed to communicate spiritually with animals and plants.

Since OT VII was replaced with Solo NOTS in the 1980's, it is a pure guess whether original OT VII was renumbered and supposed to be among the last seven OT course sections.
EDITED:
I see you mean the OT materials. Do you have access to the confidential EPs?
 
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Lee #28

Well-known member
They are referring to the SHSBC Special Briefing Course materials, of which the PDC tapes comprise a big chunk of the course.

Are those the materials you are referring to, Hobbs? Do you have an earlier course check sheet?

Sorry will have to disagree with you on this @JustSheila. As far as I know....there were about 314 SHSBC taped lectures....( on the Course I took. ) that were all recorded at Saint Hill.... Each one was about 80 to 90 minutes long. I think there were 252 lectures originally ...so perhaps some others added.... such as the Student Hat lectures and such. I believe these were recorded in 1960 to 1962?

The PDC are the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures....and are completely different. The 52 PDC lectures were recorded in 1952....and talk about some earlier tech stuff....

It is possible there are a few tapes that overlapped....ie tapes from other series that were inserted into the BC lectures...and bundled up with the new release of the SHSBC tapes around 1998 or so....in cassette format. I believe a couple tapes from the Class 8 Course are bundled.

I got the impression that the BC tapes were recorded in a Class Room setting....as I think all the students are in a rather small room as he gives the lectures... But don't know how many students are in there. There is occasional laughter from the class....but it is rare. If I remember correctly he does greet the Class...and they respond. Usually there is no sound from the class.... But his talks are so "personal".....it gives the impression that he is talking to a class. There are never any questions from the class. Hubbard never asks if there are any questions....

And he does talk......and talk. Those lectures are long. There are some of the original Clearing Course materials and tapes on the SHSBC also....

They have been referred to as "The Wall of Tapes"........as a take off from "The Wall of Fire" ( OT3 reference...)

Just for a time-line reference....Hubbard came out with OT3 in late 1966?

Edited:

I just re-read Hobbs and yours, Sheila post above.....and realize that perhaps there has been a misunderstanding......?

Hobbs posted PDF......and he is referring to a computer document format.....I believe from Adobe....called: Portable Document Format...( PDF) ....and not the Scientology PDC tapes....

I think Hobbs if just saying he has a computer file of all the OT Level materials...

Then, I had to stick my nose in.....and ......

Edited again:

It would be kinda interesting to fill in the Hubbard time line for the years after the SHSBC say around 1963 and the release of OT 3 in 1966.

I guess those are the years of the Apollo.....and going to Sea....and the forming of the Sea Org....?

No.....Apollo was bought in 1968. I had always assumed that the OT 3 story and RJ67......was from the Apollo...but now I guess not. Must have been another ship / boat.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Sorry will have to disagree with you on this @JustSheila. As far as I know....there were about 314 SHSBC taped lectures....( on the Course I took. ) that were all recorded at Saint Hill.... Each one was about 80 to 90 minutes long. I think there were 252 lectures originally ...so perhaps some others added.... such as the Student Hat lectures and such. I believe these were recorded in 1960 to 1962?

The PDC are the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures....and are completely different. The 52 PDC lectures were recorded in 1952....and talk about some earlier tech stuff....

It is possible there are a few tapes that overlapped....ie tapes from other series that were inserted into the BC lectures...and bundled up with the new release of the SHSBC tapes around 1998 or so....in cassette format. I believe a couple tapes from the Class 8 Course are bundled.

I got the impression that the BC tapes were recorded in a Class Room setting....as I think all the students are in a rather small room as he gives the lectures... But don't know how many students are in there. There is occasional laughter from the class....but it is rare. If I remember correctly he does greet the Class...and they respond. Usually there is no sound from the class.... But his talks are so "personal".....it gives the impression that he is talking to a class. There are never any questions from the class. Hubbard never asks if there are any questions....

And he does talk......and talk. Those lectures are long. There are some of the original Clearing Course materials and tapes on the SHSBC also....

They have been referred to as "The Wall of Tapes"........as a take off from "The Wall of Fire" ( OT3 reference...)

Just for a time-line reference....Hubbard came out with OT3 in late 1966?

Edited:

I just re-read Hobbs and yours, Sheila post above.....and realize that perhaps there has been a misunderstanding......?

Hobbs posted PDF......and he is referring to a computer document format.....I believe from Adobe....called: Portable Document Format...( PDF) ....and not the Scientology PDC tapes....

I think Hobbs if just saying he has a computer file of all the OT Level materials...

Then, I had to stick my nose in.....and ......

Edited again:

It would be kinda interesting to fill in the Hubbard time line for the years after the SHSBC say around 1963 and the release of OT 3 in 1966.

I guess those are the years of the Apollo.....and going to Sea....and the forming of the Sea Org....?

No.....Apollo was bought in 1968. I had always assumed that the OT 3 story and RJ67......was from the Apollo...but now I guess not. Must have been another ship / boat.
Thanks! My mistake. I never did the SHSBC, but thought I remembered that from the check sheet but I was wrong.
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Tony Ortega changed the headline of the story. The headline used to say:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building and proves gravity exists."

Ortega deleted the phrase, "and proves gravity exists."

The headline now says:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building."

/
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Tony Ortega changed the headline of the story. The headline used to say:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building and proves gravity exists."

Ortega deleted the phrase, "and proves gravity exists."

The headline now says:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building."

/
Good on Tony! That was nice of him.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Tony Ortega changed the headline of the story. The headline used to say:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building and proves gravity exists."

Ortega deleted the phrase, "and proves gravity exists."

The headline now says:

"Another Scientology OT jumps from a tall building."
Good change. Didn't expect it.

I guess I never expect people to do that.


<snip>
visiting the main implant station on Venus for an extended time (SHSBC)
Well if that doesn't sound like an euphemism for a veneral disease treatment, I dunno what does.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Good change. Didn't expect it.

I guess I never expect people to do that.



Well if that doesn't sound like an euphemism for a veneral disease treatment, I dunno what does.
But in some ways you’re not cynical. Instead, you’re trusting and naive, like the way you have this child-like belief in the honesty of major media despite all evidence to the contrary. Go figure.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
But in some ways you’re not cynical. Instead, you’re trusting and naive, like the way you have this child-like belief in the honesty of major media despite all evidence to the contrary. Go figure.
I guess maybe I do lack the data?

If someone can explain to me how Enron, Theranos or Wirecard AG were exposed without the actions of news reporters, I'll be willing to change my mind.

Thing is: I don't believe anyone will be able to do so.
 
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