A magical mystery tour of Dead Orgs part 02 - Boston!

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Did he actually... do anything about these execs? Or was he just shouting about with nothing happening?

I mean I know it is not like EUS had a real inv (not like it had a real CLO either... :p ), but still...

I don't know if he actually did anything or not. If he ever ends up here on Redux we'll have to ask him. :)

He had later ended up at the INT Base but last I knew (2009) he was at PAC as the LRH Materials Consultant at ASHO. This is a post from WWP by Marc Headley from back in 2009. I don't know where he is now or if he is even still in....hopefully not.



Jon De Vries used to work at Gold.
We all just called him JDV.

For years he was the logistics officer in the Cine Division.
Anyway for short time he was a big executive at Gold and Dave Miscavige was in a meeting with some people and he said that JDV should be on the RPF. % minutes later JDV was packed up and sent to the RPF at the Int Ranch (Happy Valley).

The next day Dave was back down in a meeting and asked where th hell JDV was. The people in the room said that he was of course on the RPF as ordered. Dave freaked out and said that he did not say the he was assigned to the RPF, he just said that he "should" be on the RPF, like what a dumb ass "should", not like send him there right now "should."

Anyway, JDV came back, got busted a few weeks later anyway and then ended up having horrible foot issues that involved his feet falling over to one side and his ankles were getting closer and closer to the ground. So based on that, he was offloaded from the Int Base and made a cleaner in PAC. Looks like he got himself back on a desk job.

I think I will email him.

until next time...
BFG
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
You must have been at the CLO NY. They had a nasty attitude there when I had a visit. They essentially hated lower org staff, thought they were all incompetent, treasonous, do nothing loafers with no reason to live.
That attitude came from the top.

When I was in Flag Bureaux, CMO played an LRH tape to us, ("a talk to the Sea Org" or some such) where LRH characterized Class 4 org staff who refused to join the Sea Org as out-ethics dilettantes.

It had the opposite of the intended effect on me. As a former org staff, my thought was "If THIS is how he talks about org staff behind their backs, then I wonder what he says about US to the CMO?".
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
One time when I was up there I overheard Jon De Vries, who was CO CMO EUS at the time, screaming that all the Boston execs were criminals!
Relaying a Darth Midget communication perfectly, I suppose - exactly per the special Messenger drills. :mad:
 

Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
Relaying a Darth Midget communication perfectly, I suppose - exactly per the special Messenger drills. :mad:
Well, screaming at everyone at the top of their lungs - that was for sure a very CMOish thing to do. I imagine that likewise was the culture at Int etc.

We had a somewhat different style: "Speak softly, but always make good on your threats".

Not that I have not used various forms of intimidation (yes, including screaming obscenities) at times, but it was almost always a tactical usage intended to increase anxiety when I felt more anxiety was required.

If one had to describe inv metered interrogations in two words it would be: "anxiety management".

When I was in Flag Bureaux, CMO played an LRH tape to us, ("a talk to the Sea Org" or some such) where LRH characterized Class 4 org staff who refused to join the Sea Org as out-ethics dilettantes.
"Because inside every out-ethics dilettante, there is a declared SP wanting to get out!"
 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
i hope no one minds my straying just a bit off the basic topic of dead orgs, but in looking further into this example i ran across some tidbits that i think may provide some insight into the world of the dying orgs.

i was looking at the footprint of their new 'temporary' space and came up with an estimate of around 15k square feet, with fits exactly what i've seen other orgs in, and I assume must be some sort of int management specification. the thing is looking at a few comparable real estate listings i don't think they could get away with paying less than $25/sq ft per year, which means rent is probably at least in the ballpark of $400k per year.

and from what i've seen i don't think most orgs have more than 3 or 4 dozen really active members, and i don't see any signs Boston is one of the bigger ones, so that would be a cost of around $10k per year per member -- and still a lot, even if the active 'field' is somewhat larger. no wonder prices are high and they're squeezing the public for every last penny, they already have too much overhead and too much space for the membership they have.

and somehow they think they need a 70,000 square foot building on 4 floors plus a garden level. i found the figure that the average commercial building utility cost in Boston is $6.22/sq ft per hear, so that could cost them over $400k a year in this new building, about as much as they probably spend leasing space now, even if they got by without paying rent to the int landlord once the title is turned over.

oh, and as with many of the other derelict idle morgue buildings, they're stuck paying commercial property taxes until they actually put it into tax exempt use. their FY2022 Net Tax: $182,623.63

i wonder how much of the money raised for the ideal org is actually being raided to meet ongoing expenses like that, and maybe even basic operating expenses for the org like rent.

i've realized that to some extent, the fundraising supposedly to buy and renovate buildings, is a sort of covert way to prop up orgs that are becoming insolvent. if they no longer have a 'wog' world landlord to whom they have to pay rent, because members put up money for a building purchase, then that much less has to come out of their weekly/monthly budget, and they can scrape by with less income. particularly in areas where utility costs are lower, that will lower the orgs' operating expenses.

this is the building out in Allston that they bought as a sort of replacement for the first one they purchased and then reportedly decided wasn't big enough:





the Hotel Alexandra bought in 2008, put back on the market in 2015 after an old addition collapsed leaving only about 40,000 sq ft of original building, and not too long ago finally sold after several deals fell through:

SCN Boston Hotel Alexandra.png
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
One big advantage that field auditors had, was they would commonly operate out of their homes. Homes that they would have to pay for anyway.

A small mission could operate out of a big house. After hours, some of the staff could live there.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
i hope no one minds my straying just a bit off the basic topic of dead orgs, but in looking further into this example i ran across some tidbits that i think may provide some insight into the world of the dying orgs.

i was looking at the footprint of their new 'temporary' space and came up with an estimate of around 15k square feet, with fits exactly what i've seen other orgs in, and I assume must be some sort of int management specification. the thing is looking at a few comparable real estate listings i don't think they could get away with paying less than $25/sq ft per year, which means rent is probably at least in the ballpark of $400k per year.

and from what i've seen i don't think most orgs have more than 3 or 4 dozen really active members, and i don't see any signs Boston is one of the bigger ones, so that would be a cost of around $10k per year per member -- and still a lot, even if the active 'field' is somewhat larger. no wonder prices are high and they're squeezing the public for every last penny, they already have too much overhead and too much space for the membership they have.

and somehow they think they need a 70,000 square foot building on 4 floors plus a garden level. i found the figure that the average commercial building utility cost in Boston is $6.22/sq ft per hear, so that could cost them over $400k a year in this new building, about as much as they probably spend leasing space now, even if they got by without paying rent to the int landlord once the title is turned over.

oh, and as with many of the other derelict idle morgue buildings, they're stuck paying commercial property taxes until they actually put it into tax exempt use. their FY2022 Net Tax: $182,623.63

i wonder how much of the money raised for the ideal org is actually being raided to meet ongoing expenses like that, and maybe even basic operating expenses for the org like rent.

i've realized that to some extent, the fundraising supposedly to buy and renovate buildings, is a sort of covert way to prop up orgs that are becoming insolvent. if they no longer have a 'wog' world landlord to whom they have to pay rent, because members put up money for a building purchase, then that much less has to come out of their weekly/monthly budget, and they can scrape by with less income. particularly in areas where utility costs are lower, that will lower the orgs' operating expenses.

this is the building out in Allston that they bought as a sort of replacement for the first one they purchased and then reportedly decided wasn't big enough:





the Hotel Alexandra bought in 2008, put back on the market in 2015 after an old addition collapsed leaving only about 40,000 sq ft of original building, and not too long ago finally sold after several deals fell through:

View attachment 17528
.

That was a very interesting perspective on Scientology's real estate racket!

Add to that some other contributive elements that help explain WHY the cult so desperately needs to add such mega-footage to their tiny failing orgs:

- - Scientology was always and forever about the "long con", using props like meaningless OCA diagnostic tests and other charlatanical curative gadgets like e-meters.​
- - Sophisticated con games that are capable of raping billions from unsuspecting marks require a "front". In the intelligence world a front is defined as "...a person or organization serving as a cover for subversive or illegal activities." A wildly oversized and fancy building is a perfect front.​
- - Fundamentally essential to every single Scientology transaction is the core concept of "transcendent magical powers". That's what the international organization manufactures, markets and sells. To wit, the grade chart is a yellow brick road leading to Clear and the supernaturally causative state of Operating Thetan. At the end of that "bridge" lies the sacred kingdom where everything and everyone is "flourishing and prospering"! Thus, Scientology can hardly afford to body route its victims into a homeless tent encampment.​

Mega-sized buildings with marble floors and shiny bling in every direction are better! Just ask any of the casinos of Las Vegas.


124,000 square foot Caesars Palace



This could easily be mistaken for the inside of the SUPERPOWER building.
Or it could be the stage set of any of Scientology's mega events. Or,
just replace one of those oversized horizontal paintings with a
flatscreen monitor playng cult propaganda on an endless loop—
and one might easily mistake it for the inside of an Ideal Org.

The marketing genius of casinos was not lost on Scientology. Both have glitzy palaces offering "high-stakes gambling" that can pay off with untold riches & rewards if one has "wins".

In both, however, it is impossible to maintain a "winning" state because, over time, "the house always wins".

.
 
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Type4_PTS

Well-known member
.The marketing genius of casinos was not lost on Scientology. Both have glitzy palaces offering "high-stakes gambling" that can pay off with untold riches & rewards if one has "wins".

In both, however, it is impossible to maintain a "winning" state because, over time, "the house always wins".
There's something else that Scientology has in common with the casinos. Your chances of attaining Total Freedom within Scientology are about the same as your chances of achieving it within the casinos. Probably you have a slightly greater chance within the casinos. :D
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Add to that some other contributive elements that help explain WHY the cult so desperately needs to add such mega-footage to their tiny failing orgs:
while i like your view, i have to point out from my perspective that if it were any sort of properly planned con they should have`built it around
significantly oversized and fancy buildings in say the 25,000 sq ft range, still close to double what seems to be the old standard org size, and then executed it quickly. in the case of Boston that would have saved them about $150k - $200k per year on rent or utilities, and then that nasty tax bill as well, or enough in one year to afford a bottle of Macallan 63 Year In Lalique for someone special.

i think the whole ideal org thing is a Top Super-Stupid machination, or as the commenter who goes by John P. Capitalist has said, a destroyer of wealth. if DM were really deviously trying to reap the maximum amount of money out of it he could have done far better, instead he's wasted an enormous amount of potential haul, and damaged his future prospects for getting more out of his marks,
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Scientology has never thought about the long-term consequences. It is always focused on the maximum it can get right now, this week. So the ideal org program is in line with their way of operating, it's just another avenue where they can get people to donate. Person not big on the IAS, well how about helping your local org?

Scientology is always focused on people donating every cent they can, maxing out credit cards, everything. This puts many scientologists in dire financial circumstances, bankruptcy and ruined credit scores are common. I'd argue that over the long-term this actually reduces the amount scientology receives.

But scientology never thinks long-term. A reg isn't going to stop a cycle just because the person will decalre bankruptcy if it goes through. They will still push the cycle through even if it means the total amount donated by the person over the next 10 years or whatever is reduced.

One of the many failings of scientology management tech and it's obsession with weekly stats.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
while i like your view, i have to point out from my perspective that if it were any sort of properly planned con they should have`built it around
significantly oversized and fancy buildings in say the 25,000 sq ft range, still close to double what seems to be the old standard org size, and then executed it quickly. in the case of Boston that would have saved them about $150k - $200k per year on rent or utilities, and then that nasty tax bill as well, or enough in one year to afford a bottle of Macallan 63 Year In Lalique for someone special.

i think the whole ideal org thing is a Top Super-Stupid machination, or as the commenter who goes by John P. Capitalist has said, a destroyer of wealth. if DM were really deviously trying to reap the maximum amount of money out of it he could have done far better, instead he's wasted an enormous amount of potential haul, and damaged his future prospects for getting more out of his marks,

Have to 100% agree with you all the way up and down the line of your reasoned and economically sane approach to building an organization whilst remaining within a balanced budgetary "sweet-spot" at all times.

I confess, I did not even attempt to consider nor calculate any reasonable metrics for spending on a new ("ideal") org building other than whether it was fun to spoof or not. LOL. My bad ("MEA CULTA").

In determining the outrageous excesses the cult spends on building these PC PALACES, I would guess the cult has two primary objectives that govern their decision making:

1) Whatever it takes to overwhelm Paying & Prospective Public with Pretentiously Priceless PC Palaces. Yup, shock and awe to impress would-be donors and lifetime paying subscribers to the "I want to go God" club.
2). Spend as much as required by IRS regulations to move and remain firmly out of any "gray area" in terms of the restrictive wealth-hoarding statutes for non profit/charitable organizations to maintain their 501c3 status.

I actually am not familiar with how IRS audits on non-profits are conducted and all the arcane litigation case precedents therein, I wouldn't even hazard a guess at how much the COS is required to spend. But even if they wildly exceeded the sums they are forced to dedicate to projects that "benefit the community" in some way, it's still beneficial to the cult's marketing mojo to have their glorified sales offices (Ideal Orgs) as breathlessly over the top as the supernaturally hyperbolic claims for the "tech" that it's selling inside.

If you think about the wild excesses they spend, it begins to make more sense when considering that just one (1) whale like Bob Duggan can donate close to $350M and all the other deep-pocketed status-hungry marks can easily and collectively kick in another $200M, which brings the Ideal Org donations up to over a half billion dollars! And that is only one (1) of the donation rackets they are running. In that way, it begins to actually make a little bit of sense that they spend money like drug cartel kingpins who can't launder enough billions and so spend the cash hoardes in meaninglessly lavish excesses. At a more modest scale, casinos do the same to attract and maintain the customer loyalty of their mega whales who can each drop a few million bucks in one night at the gaming tables.

Oh, but let us not worry about the Church of Scientology's profligate spending. They still retain enough to perform their sacred mission of saving mankind and delivering a world without criminality. And once the criminality is erased from this planet, the world will no longer be victimized by charlatans, hucksters, liars and con men, so luckily mankind's got that goin' for them!

:hattip:

.


.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
But scientology never thinks long-term. A reg isn't going to stop a cycle just because the person will decalre bankruptcy if it goes through. They will still push the cycle through even if it means the total amount donated by the person over the next 10 years or whatever is reduced.

One of the many failings of scientology management tech and it's obsession with weekly stats.
It's inherent in the system.

A reg who fails to keep her stats up is removed and replaced.

It makes no sense to engage in long-range planning, if you are not likely to benefit from your long-range plans.

I've seen people engage in ridiculous levels of effort to get a sale close before Tuesday at 2, which would have happened without effort on Friday.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I confess, I did not even attempt to consider nor calculate any reasonable metrics for spending on a new ("ideal") org building other than whether it was fun to spoof or not. LOL. My bad ("MEA CULTA").
no problem, that's why i wrote that i appreciated your viewpoint 😏

i like to do the dry numbers and point out just how really super stupid it all is....
 
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