Heads Up - New Marty Dump

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Wow, the other shoe finally drops. We've been waiting for 5 years to hear why they fired their lawyer. Interesting story.
 

ILove2Lurk

AI Chatbot
Interesting story.
Do you believe him? Is it worth reading? (He's not an easy read.)

Regardless of what's in the story, we still have the issue of 80 or so
professionally staged and scripted videos. Those where done in a
studio with sound, video, and light people from the looks of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Compare those videos with the crappy informal videos he did sitting
on the dock and without professional help. He had a lot of help to make
those 84 later on. Cost a lot of money for production. Where did that
money come from and why? He can't gloss over reality. :LOL:
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Wow, the other shoe finally drops. We've been waiting for 5 years to hear why they fired their lawyer. Interesting story.
Is there a shortish version of events? I tried but it's one of those long winded 'explain every thought and theory in detail' culty things and I can't face trying to read it?
 

ILove2Lurk

AI Chatbot
Is there a shortish version of events? I tried but it's one of those long winded 'explain every thought and theory in detail' culty things and I can't face trying to read it?
Yeah, it is one of those. :LOL: I began it and bailed pretty quickly.
Waiting for some brave soul to summarize it too.
 

Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
Yeah its just like Marty: Why say something in 100 words if you can do the same in 1000 words?

I'm gonna skip the personal attacks and stuff too vague to consider, instead I'll condense Marty's post to a list of specific claims. Long story short, Marty claims that (direct quotes from marty in blue ink):

1. The case was nowhere near forcing Miscavige into a deposition
2. That ray Jeffrey (Monique's attorney) himself acknowledged that the deposition issue is dead.
3. That Ray Jeffrey sabotaged the deposition issue by:
"reneging on the agreed upon strategy for success, by secreting material witnesses and refusing to use relevant documents that Mike Rinder allegedly stole from Scientology". And that Ray "pushed a faulty strategy for the case in the first place".
4. That Ray Jeffrey flip-floped on the issue of Rinder being his client or not.
5. That Ray Jeffrey
"been more than compensated already by all the services I had provided him and his clients (gratis) which had netted him a small fortune." and that Ray "thanked me repeatedly for single-handedly saving his law firm from financial demise".
6. That Ray "approached Scientology waving the white flag before he ever asked Monique’s permission to do so – which permission, again, was explicitly withheld. Ray Jeffrey and krew literally concocted the lie that Scientology approached them for the purpose of covertly nullifying his client’s instruction to not originate settlement. They then spent more than a month continually deceiving and lying to Monique to maintain the fiction that Scientology was aching to settle."
7. That "Ray Jeffrey told scientology that I was willing to tell scientology everything I knew about every former scientologist I had encountered." and that Ray was "only prevented from doing so by Monique Rathbun terminating them as counsel."
8. That Mike withheld some "documents" from the case because he planned to use them to extort money from scientology... but at the same time these documents were already present "for years on my blog and Scientology hadn’t raised an issue"
9. That "Monique Rathbun and I did not seek settlement and never settled".


I'm going to offer my own comment on each point:
1&2: Maybe the deposition was possible, maybe it was not. While it would be interesting to see Miscavige in a deposition, the main issue was if the lawsuit was winnable or not. Marty somehow skirts around this main issue.
3&8: Please present documented evidence, or it didn't happen. Also, while Marty writes in such a long convoluted way, he did not find enough space to write what exactly are these "Rinder documents" and what they contained (or at least link to a blog post where he explains that).
4: Who cares? The important part is if the lawsuit was winnable.
5&6&7: Please present documented evidence and numbers, or it didn't happen.
9: And this is the crux of the matter. Ok, let's for a second assume that Ray was a lousy lawyer that wanted to settle with scientology and did things contrary to the wishes of his clients. Let's assume that's why they fired him. So in that case - why the hell didn't they get a new lawyer and go on with the lawsuit?! If they "never settled", then the lawsuit should go on and Monique would either win or lose the lawsuit.

In this whole long blog post, Marty does not address the main issue: Why the lawsuit was dropped. Why Monique didn't simply get a new law firm to represent her and go on with the suit.

I smell a big fat rat.

Addendum: Marty, let me tell ya' somethin' right now: don't try to go toe to toe with an ex-INV analyst. We were both trained to look past people's BS and go for the facts. You need to do better than that boy. :D:cool::D

Is there a shortish version of events? I tried but it's one of those long winded 'explain every thought and theory in detail' culty things and I can't face trying to read it?
Now there is. :cool:

Yeah, it is one of those. :LOL: I began it and bailed pretty quickly.
Waiting for some brave soul to summarize it too.
I expect much love and kisses.
 
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statpush

Active member
Do you believe him? Is it worth reading? (He's not an easy read.)

Regardless of what's in the story, we still have the issue of 80 or so
professionally staged and scripted videos. Those where done in a
studio with sound, video, and light people from the looks of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Compare those videos with the crappy informal videos he did sitting
on the dock and without professional help. He had a lot of help to make
those 84 later on. Cost a lot of money for production. Where did that
money come from and why? He can't gloss over reality. :LOL:
Its a pretty hard slog. Marty needs an editor.

Limited to the aborted lawsuit. No mention of the infamous videos. Maybe that's next?
 

freethinker

Controversial
Marty certainly has his "always attack never defend" policy firmly in.

What exactly is Marty's "employment" that secured his house, auditing?

How many of Ray Jaffrey's other clients have reported on Ray for being an outright liar?

The last I recall on the Monique case, they were actually winning. Marty points to another article he wrote as proof they were not. Nothing like referencing your own material as proof of what someone else did.
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
Wowzer!!
 
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freethinker

Controversial
In this part of Marty's Knowledge Report, he says he later learned a few times what Jaffrey was up to. My question is, who did he learn it from.

After more than a month of weathering Jeffrey’s attempted coercion, we learned that Scientology never did approach Ray Jeffrey concerning settlement as he and his krew had represented.

In fact, Ray Jeffrey approached Scientology waving the white flag before he ever asked Monique’s permission to do so – which permission, again, was explicitly withheld. Ray Jeffrey and krew literally concocted the lie that Scientology approached them for the purpose of covertly nullifying his client’s instruction to not originate settlement. They then spent more than a month continually deceiving and lying to Monique to maintain the fiction that Scientology was aching to settle. Jeffrey choked the gaslighting play by trying to pressure me into agreeing to a gag order, a comprehensive ‘debrief’ and Monique into selling all rulings and opinions in the case.

We subsequently learned that Ray Jeffrey asserted to Scientology that his krew represented me personally and that I wanted him to approach scientology to settle. Ray Jeffrey and krew did not represent me and I had not expressed to him any intention to approach scientology – quite to the contrary.

We subsequently learned that Ray Jeffrey told scientology that I was willing to tell scientology everything I knew about every former scientologist I had encountered. Specifically, Ray Jeffrey told scientology that I had agreed to ‘snitch’ on Mike Rinder as part of a settlement and that I would forever remain silent on the subject of scientology – if the price was right for Ray Jeffrey. Ray Jeffrey got his tit caught in a wringer when he later attempted to get to me to consent to what he had (unbeknownst to us at the time) already offered, which I did not. When his threats did not work on me, and I insisted on a full accounting for all alleged communications between Jeffrey and Scientology, Jeffrey and krew attempted to drive a wedge between Monique and me. That included phoning harassment and threats to her late at night while she was attending to her then-ill two-year-old child. That campaign culminated in termination of Jeffrey and Krew. And, contrary to Jeffrey’s Underground Bunker statements in 2016 and this summer to Remini/Rinder regarding his great love and care for Monique Rathbun, the firing occurred the very day the Krew threatened to quit the next day – in the midst of an imminent Supreme Court filing deadline – if Monique refused to denounce my efforts to get them to cease treating her like a second-class citizen. This harassment was incessant even after Jeffrey and krew had a) informed Monique that she should cease communication with them until she had retained new, independent counsel to review their charge that she had a conflict of interest by listening to her own husband, and b) themselves been put on notice in writing to cease and desist from their continuing attempts to drive a wedge between Monique and her husband.
 

Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
The last I recall on the Monique case, they were actually winning.
That's the whole point!

If the only problem Marty had in that lawsuit was Ray being a poor lawyer, then what stopped Marty from getting another lawyer?

If there were many, many problems with the lawsuit and it wasn't winnable, then what the heck stopped Scientology from counterattacking, winning the suit and then making Marty bankrupt by piling all their legal fees on him?

See guys, there were only possible outcomes:

1. Monique/Marty win this case, scn covers the costs and there is some verdict against it, possibly having to pay damages to Monique/Marty.
2. Monique/Marty lose the case, then scn goes after them and they get charged with the costs.
3. There is a settlement reached in or out of court, Monique/Marty get paid by scn or at least they go away without the scn going after them in court and trying to pin the legal costs on them.

We know for a fact that outcome no.1 and no.2 did not happen. That kinda narrows it down, don't you think? :D:cool: :D
 

statpush

Active member
That's the whole point!

If the only problem Marty had in that lawsuit was Ray being a poor lawyer, then what stopped Marty from getting another lawyer?

If there were many, many problems with the lawsuit and it wasn't winnable, then what the heck stopped Scientology from counterattacking, winning the suit and then making Marty bankrupt by piling all their legal fees on him?

See guys, there were only possible outcomes:

1. Monique/Marty win this case, scn covers the costs and there is some verdict against it, possibly having to pay damages to Monique/Marty.
2. Monique/Marty lose the case, then scn goes after them and they get charged with the costs.
3. There is a settlement reached in or out of court, Monique/Marty get paid by scn or at least they go away without the scn going after them in court and trying to pin the legal costs on them.

We know for a fact that outcome no.1 and no.2 did not happen. That kinda narrows it down, don't you think? :D:cool: :D
4. Monique/Marty drop the case.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I smell a big fat rat.

Addendum: Marty, let me tell ya' somethin' right now: don't try to go toe to toe with an ex-INV analyst. We were both trained to look past people's BS and go for the facts. You need to do better than that boy. :D:cool::D

It continues---the never-ending, indefatigable chest-thumping claims about your own "investigative" powers & prowess. Yet, none of your "investigations" over the past year have resulted in anything.

You "investigated" me and concluded that I am a troll, LOL. Was that Ron's or your own "standard investigation tech" that you used there?

You "noisily investigated" Mike Rinder with countless insinuations, inferences, allegations & accusations that he had hidden crimes. Remember all those campaigns where you loudly asserted that Mike (one of the greatest and most effective whistleblowers in the cult's 70 year history) was so very guilty of hidden evil acts. Yet your "investigations" came up with nothing.

You also investigated a person who is arguably the most noticed, published, read, watched, awarded, celebrated, beloved and effective whistleblower--ever! Leah Remini. Your brilliant "investigation" concluded that her wildly successful public interviews (on hit cable shows, hit network shows and on the world's #1 podcast) were not good at all. They were bad, you claimed. Your "investigation" sourly concluded that YOU knew how to do whistleblowing so much better than Leah---even though you have never done ANY whistleblowing that ANYONE knows about. Finally, your brilliant "investigation" discovered that Leah's hugely watched and successful interviews were actually DOING HARM TO SCIENTOLOGISTS AND TO SCIENTOLOGY STAFF MEMBERS. To wit, your brilliant "investigation" made an unhinged assertion that was the complete opposite of and disgracefully debunked by the actual facts!

And now you have "investigated" Marty Rathbun and your only conclusion is "I smell a big fat rat". LOL. In other words, as usual, your investigations produce no revelations at all. Because real "investigations" UNCOVER NEW FACTS AND EVIDENCE, which yours never do.

Maybe you can turn your formidably fearsome investigatory powers on yourself and find out why your investigations are such disappointing and delusional duds. Or (better yet) maybe you can stop calling what you do "investigations" and just concede that you are an ordinary person with nothing more than an opinion.

PRO-TIP: You're not an investigator. That post doesn't exist on ESMB. Even when you were working for the cult doing investigations on behalf of the cult's sociopathic gurus (Commodore/COB), it is not something any normal person would want to brag about. Because cult investigations are toxically rigged and good people were routinely harmed.

.
 
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Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
4. Monique/Marty drop the case.
Then you are just back to the 3 choices I listed above.

1. If they are bound to win the case and they drop it - why would they do that? IsMarty giving Dave a free gift all of a sudden?!
2. If they are losing the case and drop it, then scientology counterattacks ("attack, never defend") Monique and will pile their legal fees on her, or at the very least counter-sue and go back to pestering them online and offline al the time. Why would scientology all of a sudden give anyone a free pass in court when it appears it is winning?!

Which brings us to point 3: They drop the suit because Marty cuts some sort of deal with Dave.

If you have a good answer to the questions I made to points 1&2 in this post, please let me know. Maybe there are some facts that I'm not aware of. To me it clearly looks like Marty made a deal and I can only speculate that it was because he finally buckled under the pressure. He had enough, he no longer had any fight left in him.

I don't think Mary bailed because he was resentful of Mike or "evil", I think Marty was just weak. It seems Dave offered him some scraps and a "We'll leave you alone, go live life" offer, Marty went for it.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Do you believe him? Is it worth reading? (He's not an easy read.)

Regardless of what's in the story, we still have the issue of 80 or so
professionally staged and scripted videos. Those where done in a
studio with sound, video, and light people from the looks of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Compare those videos with the crappy informal videos he did sitting
on the dock and without professional help. He had a lot of help to make
those 84 later on. Cost a lot of money for production. Where did that
money come from and why? He can't gloss over reality. :LOL:
.
LOL

I think all that is needed to resolve this mystery is to have the FBI issue subpoenas to all Walmarts across America, compelling the surrender of all their stores' surveillance footage.

Then, set up a task force (creating a million new jobs) that reviews all that footage frame-by-frame---until someone finally discovers the smoking gun. To wit, the time when David Miscavige was at the Walmart checkout counter buying the infamous brown blazer.

At trial, the prosecutors could force Rathbun to try on the brown blazer to demonstrate "If the brown blazer fits, you must convict!"

It would be a really cool spectacle, that trial, with COB packing the courtroom with fanatical supporters like Jenny Devocht, the other "inch wives" and Shelly Miscavige---who'd all show up with eerily shaved heads, blink-less eyes and an ARC Triangle carved into their foreheads.

.
 
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statpush

Active member
A realistic scenario, is, Jeffrey, coming off of the Debbie Cook win, sought to repeat his success. I think Marty saw the Cook case as a fluke, a rare occasion where the church was caught flatfooted. But, with Monique's lawsuit, they would not make the same mistake. They would throw everything they had at it, and attempt to drag it out for years or even decades. How would Marty know this? Because that's what he did for 25+ years.

Jeffrey, on the other hand, may have been mesmerized by that shiny pot o' gold. Thinking, if we just get the DM deposition, they'll be reaching for the checkbook. Which may be a fair assumption. But, it would come with conditions. Conditions Marty would never find acceptable. And maybe during all of this, Jeffrey saw that the Cook victory brought him some notoriety in the ex community, and that there were other potential lawsuits that could be turned around much quicker than Monique's, which already was a years-long case. Plus, having Marty as a client likely posed its own problems.

As Marty tells it, sounds like the whole thing kinda petered out, after client and lawyer could never agree to a legal strategy.
 

statpush

Active member
Then you are just back to the 3 choices I listed above.

1. If they are bound to win the case and they drop it - why would they do that? IsMarty giving Dave a free gift all of a sudden?!
2. If they are losing the case and drop it, then scientology counterattacks ("attack, never defend") Monique and will pile their legal fees on her, or at the very least counter-sue and go back to pestering them online and offline al the time. Why would scientology all of a sudden give anyone a free pass in court when it appears it is winning?!

Which brings us to point 3: They drop the suit because Marty cuts some sort of deal with Dave.

If you have a good answer to the questions I made to points 1&2 in this post, please let me know. Maybe there are some facts that I'm not aware of. To me it clearly looks like Marty made a deal and I can only speculate that it was because he finally buckled under the pressure. He had enough, he no longer had any fight left in him.

I don't think Mary bailed because he was resentful of Mike or "evil", I think Marty was just weak. It seems Dave offered him some scraps and a "We'll leave you alone, go live life" offer, Marty went for it.
#4 is what actually happened.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

BOLO ALERT!

BE ON THE LOOKOUT
FOR A BROWN BLAZER!


LAST SEEN IN THE HAUTE COUTURE
DESIGNER LABEL SECTION OF
FINE MEN'S CLOTHING STORES

link to surveillance photo

.
 
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Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
They would throw everything they had at it, and attempt to drag it out for years or even decades. How would Marty know this? Because that's what he did for 25+ years.
That combination doesn't hold water. If Marty/Monique drop the case, that automatically prevents Marty from dragging it out "for years or even decades".

Marty is no genius, but he's not an idiot. If he didn't like Ray but wanted to drag the case out, he would have fired Ray and hired another lawyer. People do that all the time.

As Marty tells it, sounds like the whole thing kinda petered out, after client and lawyer could never agree to a legal strategy.
What do you mean by "kinda petered out"? Was Monique winning or losing the case at the point when they dropped the case?

#4 is what actually happened.
It is not possible for no.4 to be the end of the story. If that occurs, then we are back at square one having to choose between the 3 "end of story options":

1. If they are bound to win the case and they drop it - why would they do that? Is Marty giving Dave a free gift all of a sudden?!
2. If they are losing the case and drop it, then scientology counterattacks ("attack, never defend") Monique and will pile their legal fees on her, or at the very least counter-sue and go back to pestering them online and offline al the time. Why would scientology all of a sudden give anyone a free pass in court when it appears it is winning?!
3. There is a settlement reached in or out of court, Monique/Marty get paid by scn or at least they go away without the scn going after them in court and trying to pin the legal costs on them.

Seeing the house they purchased, we know 1&2 did not happen. That kinda narrows it down :D
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
That combination doesn't hold water. If Marty/Monique drop the case, that automatically prevents Marty from dragging it out "for years or even decades".

Marty is no genius, but he's not an idiot. If he didn't like Ray but wanted to drag the case out, he would have fired Ray and hired another lawyer. People do that all the time.


What do you mean by "kinda petered out"? Was Monique winning or losing the case at the point when they dropped the case?


It is not possible for no.4 to be the end of the story. If that occurs, then we are back at square one having to choose between the 3 "end of story options":

1. If they are bound to win the case and they drop it - why would they do that? Is Marty giving Dave a free gift all of a sudden?!
2. If they are losing the case and drop it, then scientology counterattacks ("attack, never defend") Monique and will pile their legal fees on her, or at the very least counter-sue and go back to pestering them online and offline al the time. Why would scientology all of a sudden give anyone a free pass in court when it appears it is winning?!
3. There is a settlement reached in or out of court, Monique/Marty get paid by scn or at least they go away without the scn going after them in court and trying to pin the legal costs on them.

Seeing the house they purchased, we know 1&2 did not happen. That kinda narrows it down :D
Sorry, but logic is failing you, or is it that you logic is failing.

You seem to be stuck on 3 options -- there are far more possibilities.
 
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