Mike Rinder book ~~ less than a month away, it coming soon.

ILove2Lurk

AI Chatbot
We can always begin a new "review thread" when the time comes and put a banner
in the OP as to which undesirables one should put on "ignore" before diving into the
thread. That should piss off a few people.

*I'd be happy to make the colorful banner, LOL. :LOL:
 

statpush

Active member
Note: these are my last words for these individuals. I do not wish to interact with trolls. Yes, you are trolls. The following is intended for others on this board. I doubt any of these listed are capable of independent thought or meaningful debate.

I did not leave Scientology to join an equally tribalistic group of sheeple, who: routinely practice ad hominem attacks; are comfortable with evidence-free narratives; attack anything that does not fit the narrative; are utterly devoted to personality, instead of truth; and are seemingly incapable of objectively viewing and evaluating data.

Tribalism brings about stupidity.

It shuts-down thinking. You know, that stuff you used to do?

I have been a member of this board and old ESMB for many years, but I'm not member of the tribe. People have asked me why I don't post much, or why do I post when I do. First, many times I do not have anything to say, or anything that would add value to the discussion, and more and more I just don't find it interesting. I suspect I am not alone. My interest has waned over the years, though I do try to keep up on current events. But, by and large, I find the discussions dull and repetitive. Too much tribalism, too much stupidity, unwilling/unable to consider opposing views, many have not altered their viewpoint on matters for years, this is not growth, this is the death of an online community.

But, occasionally a topic comes up that I have some interest in, so I'll chime in. It doesn't take long for the bots to arrive. To be fair, they are not really bots; to use a Matrix metaphor, they are like sentinels (squiddies), those autonomous killing machines that patrol the Matrix and seek to dismantle or destroy any threat to the Matrix. Here they attempt to destroy the person, never the idea he represents. They protect the fabric of this online matrix.

On this current topic, I have been accused of somehow derailing the conversation. Not true. That is the job of the sentinel.

My original post, and the points raised, remain.

@HelluvaHoax! - man, you need to get out. Seriously, I don't think there's an OSA agent around every corner, or inside every cupboard. It must be exhausting.
@TheSneakster - I find your retorts to be neither humorous, clever or informative = waste of time.
@Type4_PTS - this one puzzles me. Somehow you have managed to weaponize stupidity. Kudos.

Ta Ta
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Note: these are my last words for these individuals. I do not wish to interact with trolls. Yes, you are trolls. I doubt any of these listed are capable of independent thought or meaningful debate. I did not leave Scientology to join an equally tribalistic group of sheeple, who: routinely practice ad hominem attacks; are comfortable with evidence-free narratives; attack anything that does not fit the narrative; are utterly devoted to personality, instead of truth; and are seemingly incapable of objectively viewing and evaluating data. Tribalism brings about stupidity. It shuts-down thinking. I have been a member of this board and old ESMB for many years, but I'm not member of the tribe. People have asked me why I don't post much, or why do I post when I do. First, many times I do not have anything to say, or anything that would add value to the discussion, and more and more I just don't find it interesting. I find the discussions dull and repetitive. Too much tribalism, too much stupidity, unwilling/unable to consider opposing views, many have not altered their viewpoint on matters for years, this is not growth, this is the death of an online community.
.


Another fancy-sounding thread de-rail. Wow, this guy really doesn't like talking about Mike Rinder's book.

On the positive side, he successfully used the word "TRIBE" in many sentences just like Alanzo. This will help his student points graph enormously!

Apparently he thinks it's "TRIBALISTIC" when people on a thread all want to talk about the same topic that is described in the thread's title. LOL.

.
 
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Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
I also have known many people who made it up to OT8 and done the L's. Well, I can tell you they no have super powers, nor great abilities, nor anything. In fact, most humans that did anything great in the world happened were not involved with dianetics or scientology, this is a stat thing from observation.
Your point?

I never claimed anything similar to "OT8s have actual powers" or that Mike Rinder somehow has superpowers because of his scientology training and auditing. Maybe I'm just not getting your intention here...

Tribalism brings about stupidity.
Certainly does. Having said that, the term "tribalism" has been hijacked by the likes of Marty Rathbun and A.Stanfield to the point where it starts to result in a gag reflex each time I hear it.

I now much prefer the term "groupthink", "in-group vs out-group bias" or "black-and-white thinking".
 

statpush

Active member
Certainly does. Having said that, the term "tribalism" has been hijacked by the likes of Marty Rathbun and A.Stanfield to the point where it starts to result in a gag reflex each time I hear it.

I now much prefer the term "groupthink", "in-group vs out-group bias" or "black-and-white thinking".
Marty and Alanzo have not hijacked the English language word "tribalism", a word known and used by millions, if not billions of people. People have done their PhDs on the subject. So, when Marty or Alanzo use the term they're "hijacking" the word? As far as I know, they have not redefined the term, so where's the "hijacking"?

The term "groupthink" has a specific meaning to a former Scientologists, and is not the same as "tribalism". Tribalism is studied by sociologists and anthropologists. It really is a bona fide subject and helps explain the behaviours and attitudes on this board.

(I suspect the gag reflex is an MU. :))
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Emphasis mine.

Marty and Alanzo have not hijacked the English language word "tribalism", a word known and used by millions, if not billions of people. People have done their PhDs on the subject. So, when Marty or Alanzo use the term they're "hijacking" the word? As far as I know, they have not redefined the term, so where's the "hijacking"?

The term "groupthink" has a specific meaning to a former Scientologists, and is not the same as "tribalism". Tribalism is studied by sociologists and anthropologists. It really is a bona fide subject and helps explain the behaviours and attitudes on this board.

(I suspect the gag reflex is an MU. :))

No ... it helps you to explain your feelings, thoughts and opinions concerning the behaviours and attitudes on this board.
 

statpush

Active member
Emphasis mine.

No ... it helps you to explain your feelings, thoughts and opinions concerning the behaviours and attitudes on this board.
Not sure what this means. Are you saying I am using concepts of tribalism to explain observable behaviour? Guilty. What do you use?

Are they my concepts? No.

Is there something about this board that makes it immune to tribalism? Or have we just banned the concept? I have to be careful since it has been inexplicably hijacked by Marty and Alanzo. Maybe, if we ban together, we can re-take the word and restore it to its original meaning?

Open to other ideas and concepts if it moves the discussion forward.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Note: these are my last words for these individuals. I do not wish to interact with trolls. Yes, you are trolls. The following is intended for others on this board. I doubt any of these listed are capable of independent thought or meaningful debate.

I did not leave Scientology to join an equally tribalistic group of sheeple, who: routinely practice ad hominem attacks; are comfortable with evidence-free narratives; attack anything that does not fit the narrative; are utterly devoted to personality, instead of truth; and are seemingly incapable of objectively viewing and evaluating data.

Tribalism brings about stupidity.

It shuts-down thinking.

....
How is mimicking Alanzo, thinking?

(And I don't want you banned or excised. You, along with others, are part of the "package.")

Once upon a time, long ago, I defended Alanzo, who was one of a number of people who helped establish original ESMB, after it had been started by Emma.

Then something changed.

Alanzo started parroting Scientology Inc. talking points.



Alanzo's role became similar to that of the old "Bernie" which was a "perimeter defense" activity run or overseen by OSA. "Bernie" specialized in nullifying critics while presenting himself as a "critic" of Scientology. He would also seek to form alliances with ex-Scientologists, could be a seemingly compassionate listener, and a voice of calm and reason. If one ex Scientologist had a gripe with another ex Scientologist, providing that the other ex Scientologist was important enough to qualify as a significant "enemy" of Scientology Inc., he'd seek to develop it, and exacerbate it - while "helping" - or at least collect content that he could use on his site.

"Bernie" posed as the "third way," and as a "reasonable critic." Initially, and this is perhaps twenty through ten years ago, Bernie could be seen as a breath of fresh air.

Years ago, people tended to be more naive, and less well informed.

And, after all, Scientology is notorious for "always attacking," but this was something more subtle. Yet, Scientology's "PR tech," particularly when manifesting as what Hubbard called "white PR" (and also "nicey nicey PR" and "PR of PR") could also be subtle.

Is Alanzo working, in some fashion, with OSA (Scientology's front and PR group, PR, Propaganda, Lawfare, harassment, and covert Intelligence network)?

I have no idea.

Perhaps he simply aspires to be the new "Bernie" and to assist in the attacking of those at the top of David Miscavige's personal enemies list.

Perhaps he's just a low budget version of the high production value, staged, videos featuring Marty Rathbun.

Who knows?


But the patterns, and talking points, are there and are undeniable.



"Being an anti-Scientologist is like being an anti-Semite. It is being anti, as in you know a better way and you're so certain about it that you're gonna get rid of somebody's religion."

Each can decide for himself.

The Rinder book is not yet available. In the meantime, peripheral issues, even silly ones, are valid topics of discussion.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
"Being an anti-Scientologist is like being an anti-Semite. It is being anti, as in you know a better way and you're so certain about it that you're gonna get rid of somebody's religion."
Seems to me that this is a strawman argument. Critics and ex-scns are not anti scientologists. Anti-abuse, anti-fraud, anti-disconnection, etc. But certainly are not anti scientology parishioners. Turning a critical eye to scn beliefs is a valid undertaking as well. Those who hope for the elimination of the Co$ want the destructive aspects gone. I doubt that very many are bent on the elimination and prohibition of people believing in the spiritual aspects of the scn "faith".
 

ILove2Lurk

AI Chatbot
Ebook 25% discount ($11.24) for those sitting on the fence.

See information at Karen#1's link above. Three days only.

From what I've been told, Barnes and Noble ebooks can be read on a Windows PC
or Mac. Even a Kindle . . . but it gets a little complicated to initially set up.

Now funny thing is, nothing statpush, Riddick, or Alanzo for that matter, can say or
do to prevent you from buying and reading the book. They can call out "tribes" or
"rhetoric" or anything else and simply nothing can stop you. They are merely old
men yelling at clouds. I find a bit of ironic humor in all of this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
...
@HelluvaHoax! - man, you need to get out. Seriously, I don't think there's an OSA agent around every corner, or inside every cupboard. It must be exhausting.
@TheSneakster - I find your retorts to be neither humorous, clever or informative = waste of time.
@Type4_PTS - this one puzzles me. Somehow you have managed to weaponize stupidity. Kudos.

I never concluded or even assumed that you are working directly for OSA as a COS troll.

Because Scientology Trolls are a special breed that typically aspire to one day become part of the BBB.

COBBB

Chairman of the Brown Blazer Brigade

I would never want to be so presumptuous to guess or criticize someone's religion. Perhaps you and Riddick and Alanzo are not actually Scientology Trolls—but in fact Indie Trolls. LOL

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

...Now funny thing is, nothing statpush, Riddick, or Alanzo for that matter, can say or
do to prevent you from buying and reading the book. They can call out "tribes" or
"rhetoric" or anything else and simply nothing can stop you. They are merely old
men yelling at clouds
. I find a bit of ironic humor in all of this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
.
LOL

Hey you kids apostates, get off my lawn cult!

.
 

Karakorum

Ron is the source that will lead you to grief
Alanzo's role became similar to that of the old "Bernie" which was a "perimeter defense" activity run or overseen by OSA. "Bernie" specialized in nullifying critics while presenting himself as a "critic" of Scientology. He would also seek to form alliances with ex-Scientologists, could be a seemingly compassionate listener, and a voice of calm and reason. If one ex Scientologist had a gripe with another ex Scientologist, providing that the other ex Scientologist was important enough to qualify as a significant "enemy" of Scientology Inc., he'd seek to develop it, and exacerbate it - while "helping" - or at least collect content that he could use on his site.
That is my impression of him as well.

I first started looking around the internet for news about Scientology in 2019 (keep in mind that was roughly a decade AFTER I left the SO and was declared), Now I know far more then in 2019. Then a lot of things made no sense initially. For example - I saw a lot of older things from Rathbun, a lot of people mentioning Marty's website... that suddenly nothing. My first assumption was: "Oh, I guess Marty died."

I'm just mentioning that to show how confusing it was for someone like me too look online in 2019 after having nothing to do with the cult for a decade.

So in these early confusing days of internet browsing, I bumped into Alanzo's website. The first impression I had was that he had some beef against some other critics, but I've observed that among others as well. I mean let us be clear: the critic community has its controversies and grudges etc. I think Gerry Armstrong, Steve Mango and Arnie Lerma are examples of particularly controversial and polarizing individuals. But that doesn't make any one of them a likely OSA double agent.

With Stanfield, I started getting more and more suspicious vibes and I can be a paranoid bastard at times. But the first (and afaik) only time he mentioned me outside the forums was after in one forum post on the old forums I wrote that "I can't bring myself to completely trust Mike because of XYZ" or something to that extent. Then people came to me and told me that Alanzo on his blog started writing about me as a "critic of Mike Rinder".

... that's when my opinion about Stanfield turned rather sharply into the "likely an OSA agent/ally" lane.

I must have written 1000 words about SO ethics for each word I ever wrote about Mike Rinder. And yet Stanfield decided to focus on that one word instead of the sea of words and information about ethics. If one was reading my posts on the forums at the time would "a critic of Mike Rinder" really be the main takeaway of it? Not "former MAA" or "ex-SO inv member" or "2nd generation former ethics officer"? Really?
That was a very skewed and very "spin-ish" take.

From that point on my trust in Stanfield was at a whooping 0%, same as with Marty. Both are shady as hell.

Seems to me that this is a strawman argument. Critics and ex-scns are not anti scientologists. Anti-abuse, anti-fraud, anti-disconnection, etc. But certainly are not anti scientology parishioners.
I'm anti-scientology in the sense that if anyone asks me "does auditing really raise your IQ/fix your eyesight/help you find car keys?" my answer will be a resounding "no way".
But if people want to audit one another outside of the totalitarian, high-control destructive group that is the CoS - that's not my problem. Unless maybe they combine that with false medical claims or charge money for it.

But again, I couldn't care less what people decide to do with the tech or Hubbard's books, as long as they don't perpetrate the abuses and destruction the CoS spreads.
 
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Karen#1

Well-known member
I have messaged Mike (for Info only) to read STATPUSH'S posts on this thread

BECAUSE

Statpush posts this today on Rinder's blog

Statpush says

September 7, 2022 at 1:32 pm


Congrats Mike
I encourage everyone To buy extra copies and place them in every Library on the planet
Leah’s book helped me wake up to the truth
The Library’s are a valuable resource for lurkers under the radar to finally get the truth about Scientology



Reply

 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Posted on Mike Rinder's blog today:

Steven Reeves says

September 7, 2022 at 5:04 pm

I am looking forward to reading this book.

But I have to ask the following. During the TV show “Aftermath”, you told many ugly stories about what it was like being at the mercy of Miscaviage and all the terrible things he did to you.

I can’t imagine just what you could put in your book that you have not already told us on that TV show and in this blog.

Can you give us some idea as to what else you have to say about the cult in the book that you have not already told us?



Mike's answer:



Mike Rinder says

September 7, 2022 at 5:31 pm

A lot…
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I have messaged Mike (for Info only) to read STATPUSH'S posts on this thread

BECAUSE

Statpush posts this today on Rinder's blog

Statpush says

September 7, 2022 at 1:32 pm


Congrats Mike
I encourage everyone To buy extra copies and place them in every Library on the planet
Leah’s book helped me wake up to the truth
The Library’s are a valuable resource for lurkers under the radar to finally get the truth about Scientology



Reply



Statpush seems to have multiple personalities. :)
 
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